Followup on Did God create satan to sin?

[Guest Butero]

 

 

God has had a purpose in the evil of our world.He did not create it but He has allowed it.

Is Lucifer evil? 

 

Who created Lucifer? 

 

If God didn't create evil, who did? 

 

Lucifer is evil.

God created Lucifer and everything.

That was Lucifers choice.God did not originally create Lucifer evil.See post #6.You are ignoring the previous answers.Or you do not agree with them.

 

I believe that God created Lucifer with iniquity on the inside from the beginning, but it wasn't manifested immediately.  If that was not the case, that would mean Lucifer is a co-creator with God.  God would have created all that is good, and Lucifer all that is evil and bad, and I don't believe Lucifer or any of God's creation has such power to make something from nothing. 

[Guest Butero]

 

 

 

 

We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.

I agree.  What do you think about my question though.  You know that God could have simply destroyed Lucifer the moment he rebelled, and none of the evil he has done to human beings would have occurred, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  How do you deal with that?  Is it ok to be complacent?  If you have the ability to stop the devil, wouldn't you do it?  Why make people go through all the bad we have to go through?  Doesn't that show God must have a plan for using the devil to bring about his ultimate end?  If not, I would love your take on it.  I realize that I could have everything all wrong, so I would sincerely like your thoughts on this.  Perhaps you can give me something new to consider. 

 

 

The reason for that is very complex......   For the rest of all things (Creation and the things that existed before the universe) does God want to fear him as a tyrant.....   or love him as a fair, just God.    Squishing Lucifer like a bug might have been a good short term fix, but how would that effect the relationship with him and the rest of everything.   If that relationship is not there, then what's the point in any of this. 

 

If you feel that way, then wouldn't it stand to reason you would be opposed to doing harm to anyone, regardless of what they do?  If you knew someone was going to kill your family, does that mean you would have to stand back and let it happen?  God knew Satan was going to destroy many of his faithful children, yet he allows it.  Squishing Lucifer like a bug would have prevented all the bad, just as shooting a man before he kills an innocent person fixes that problem.  If you can deal with that, how is it any different than believing God created Lucifer fully knowing the evil he would do? 

 

No I would not stand by and let them hurt my family......   nor would I try and take their lives and condemn them to hell.    I would attempt to stop them without taking lives...  it's a serious thing to send someone to hell.......   that's why I practice a lot with my weapons.   It's not that hard to stop someone hurting you without killing them.

 

What about God standing by and letting Satan do harm to his children?  He could stop him any time he wishes to.  He could have simply spoken him out of existence.  Based on your earlier comments, how are you able to love a God that would allow evil to take place when he could have stopped it with one word. 

[enoob57]

Well one of the constants in theology is that God 'IS' holy and since satans 5 I will's

in Isa 14 God has separated Himself eternally from satan by casting him to the earth.

I don't think that God's original plan can be thwarted by evil for God simply doesn't give it a

place in His Eternity...

As far as the hearing of things I am very squeamish about a subjective approach to anything-> do

to the need of reliance on anything other than His Word scenarios...

 

To be absolutely sure of course I would......   The Bible does not answer all my questions.....   it makes a way for salvation and introduces me to the Father......    but I do have questions....   this would be one.     While I can actually see both sides from what the Bible says, I can't fathom that my God would create a being to make all the death, destruction, heartache and pain that this creature has caused.      I find it very difficult to believe that he would do that on purpose.    Do that with the possibilities I can see, but not that he knew for sure before hand.

Some say that I limit God by believing this......     Could I love a God that would kill several million unborn babies a year.....    I don't know that I could do that...   can you???

What I am about to say may shock you a little bit:

I basically set myself at total dependence upon His Word to bring me into what Holiness really 'IS'... I know

God warns me to be very careful not to allow any external support structures to that of His Word like for instance

God tells me He 'IS' unchecked by created boundaries and they are solely in place as directional beacons toward

building understanding to His Infinite of Person without reliance on anything YET all the while Being in that

Presence without me even to give the necessary acquiescence of His Presence... A Person of Infinite Magnitudes

loves me so that He gave all His Person in The Son so that I could be with Him forever yet allows my created will

to not even think about His Presence while rafting the rapids of emotions this life produces and then when I do

settle and with all mind, heart, willed in all strength to focus on His Presence He in gentleness testifies of the

loss that I incurred by not keeping myself so all the time... I believe the arena we are in steals more from us than

we truly understand. By all this occurrence in this spiritual reality I know sovereignly God could do other but He

'IS' doing this... thus there is value to Him for us to give back exactly the Love we have taken in from Him... this

gives our Lord Pleasure for us to have as He has the abandonment of self for other placing full reliance upon The

Father to bring about our keeping for Him The Son. We are Love gifts from The Father to The Son... All this must be

done in the same image as The Son in the intimacy of Holiness by agreement of the two w(W)ills becoming One.

Satan knows he cannot drag us into hell for we are kept by The Holy Spirit Himself allowing this self-determining

will to form into the likeness of His Word by yielding because of total desire to do so. Freedom from the concept

of I have to- into I desire to without reserve as the letting down of self directed thought to guided thought of

endless foundational depth forming a security never before dreamed possible ...

In this hope within me I hold no requirements of but have total requirements in Him to form me in the what of eternal

truth 'IS' and not what I demand for it to be! This is the evil that was born in satan to consider source other

than God as he 'IS' The Only of His Kind and there 'IS' no other... satan searched for that which is not and as God

only has the navigation in infinite reality that which is set out from Him becomes eternally lost... God does not

necessitate the defense of His Sovereignty It merely 'IS' sovereign without challenge... mankind in his soaking of

the evil in lies reckons wrongly to the mind of God-> nothing is immediate to Him Who has forever to do a thing

but only the pressing of His pleasure in that sovereign place of endless depth, unmovable, pressed into the eternity

by it's eternities does He move and Have His Being... Remember the greatest fear the demons had within the demoniac

was to be put forth in the (KJV) deep (NASB) abyss-> as all God had to do was to speak away the created in which they

were held and instantly they would be there... they were there when God spoke all into being surely their fear is

justified by experience in The Who of God. I believe this is why God says not to give place to the devil as he

has no value in that he has evacuated God from his person and the result

John 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because

there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own:

for he is a liar, and the father of it.

KJV

There is nothing here says God and in this light the kings of the earth shall gather and be amazed Isa 14:16-17

as Lucifer formed himself from lies and stole the gifting of giving God the glory of his design but

rather stole to reinforce the lies... God in the end will remove the glories he has stolen to empower

the lie and will be view with no place as all that 'IS' belongs to God... Love, Steven

[missmuffet]

 

 

 

 

 

We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.

I agree.  What do you think about my question though.  You know that God could have simply destroyed Lucifer the moment he rebelled, and none of the evil he has done to human beings would have occurred, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  How do you deal with that?  Is it ok to be complacent?  If you have the ability to stop the devil, wouldn't you do it?  Why make people go through all the bad we have to go through?  Doesn't that show God must have a plan for using the devil to bring about his ultimate end?  If not, I would love your take on it.  I realize that I could have everything all wrong, so I would sincerely like your thoughts on this.  Perhaps you can give me something new to consider. 

 

 

The reason for that is very complex......   For the rest of all things (Creation and the things that existed before the universe) does God want to fear him as a tyrant.....   or love him as a fair, just God.    Squishing Lucifer like a bug might have been a good short term fix, but how would that effect the relationship with him and the rest of everything.   If that relationship is not there, then what's the point in any of this. 

 

If you feel that way, then wouldn't it stand to reason you would be opposed to doing harm to anyone, regardless of what they do?  If you knew someone was going to kill your family, does that mean you would have to stand back and let it happen?  God knew Satan was going to destroy many of his faithful children, yet he allows it.  Squishing Lucifer like a bug would have prevented all the bad, just as shooting a man before he kills an innocent person fixes that problem.  If you can deal with that, how is it any different than believing God created Lucifer fully knowing the evil he would do? 

 

No I would not stand by and let them hurt my family......   nor would I try and take their lives and condemn them to hell.    I would attempt to stop them without taking lives...  it's a serious thing to send someone to hell.......   that's why I practice a lot with my weapons.   It's not that hard to stop someone hurting you without killing them.

 

What about God standing by and letting Satan do harm to his children?  He could stop him any time he wishes to.  He could have simply spoken him out of existence.  Based on your earlier comments, how are you able to love a God that would allow evil to take place when he could have stopped it with one word. 

 

It was God's Will.Some things will never be answered on this side of heaven.Can you except that?

[enoob57]

Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence?

[Guest Butero]

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are very different in our respective walks....   I hope we have eternity to talk about it.

I agree.  What do you think about my question though.  You know that God could have simply destroyed Lucifer the moment he rebelled, and none of the evil he has done to human beings would have occurred, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  How do you deal with that?  Is it ok to be complacent?  If you have the ability to stop the devil, wouldn't you do it?  Why make people go through all the bad we have to go through?  Doesn't that show God must have a plan for using the devil to bring about his ultimate end?  If not, I would love your take on it.  I realize that I could have everything all wrong, so I would sincerely like your thoughts on this.  Perhaps you can give me something new to consider. 

 

 

The reason for that is very complex......   For the rest of all things (Creation and the things that existed before the universe) does God want to fear him as a tyrant.....   or love him as a fair, just God.    Squishing Lucifer like a bug might have been a good short term fix, but how would that effect the relationship with him and the rest of everything.   If that relationship is not there, then what's the point in any of this. 

 

If you feel that way, then wouldn't it stand to reason you would be opposed to doing harm to anyone, regardless of what they do?  If you knew someone was going to kill your family, does that mean you would have to stand back and let it happen?  God knew Satan was going to destroy many of his faithful children, yet he allows it.  Squishing Lucifer like a bug would have prevented all the bad, just as shooting a man before he kills an innocent person fixes that problem.  If you can deal with that, how is it any different than believing God created Lucifer fully knowing the evil he would do? 

 

No I would not stand by and let them hurt my family......   nor would I try and take their lives and condemn them to hell.    I would attempt to stop them without taking lives...  it's a serious thing to send someone to hell.......   that's why I practice a lot with my weapons.   It's not that hard to stop someone hurting you without killing them.

 

What about God standing by and letting Satan do harm to his children?  He could stop him any time he wishes to.  He could have simply spoken him out of existence.  Based on your earlier comments, how are you able to love a God that would allow evil to take place when he could have stopped it with one word. 

 

It was God's Will.Some things will never be answered on this side of heaven.Can you except that?

 

Yes.

[Guest Butero]

Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence?

If that is true, it can happen again.  History can repeat itself.  You could wind up in heaven, and by and by get angry with God and rebel.  You would have free will.  Another angel could decide to rebel, like Lucifer did.  Gabriel might decide to pervert "created essence" and lead a rebellion.  Nobody will ever be secure.  Evil may not exist in heaven, but angels and people could pervert the created essence again and wind up in hell.  It may be after a million years, but it could happen.  I don't believe in unconditional eternal security, but I do believe that once you make it to heaven, you won't have to worry about winding up in hell.  You will be secure for eternity.  If I believed as you do, I would have to believe born again Christians, overcomers, saints of God already in heaven, could rebel and become lost. 

[other one]

why would I be shocked...

 

Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence?

yes, but in the instance of this question it doesn't really matter if God created the evil or created the entity that he knew would pervert things to evil.  The question to me is did God know what would happen when he created Lucifer......   if the answer is yes then God did create evil.

[Guest Butero]

why would I be shocked...

 

Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence?

yes, but in the instance of this question it doesn't really matter if God created the evil or created the entity that he knew would pervert things to evil.  The question to me is did God know what would happen when he created Lucifer......   if the answer is yes then God did create evil.

Right, and if he didn't know, he is not all knowing.  It means he can't really see the future, so how can we trust Bible prophecy? 

[missmuffet]

 

Does anyone understand that evil is not a created essence but a perversion of the created essence?

If that is true, it can happen again.  History can repeat itself.  You could wind up in heaven, and by and by get angry with God and rebel.  You would have free will.  Another angel could decide to rebel, like Lucifer did.  Gabriel might decide to pervert "created essence" and lead a rebellion.  Nobody will ever be secure.  Evil may not exist in heaven, but angels and people could pervert the created essence again and wind up in hell.  It may be after a million years, but it could happen.  I don't believe in unconditional eternal security, but I do believe that once you make it to heaven, you won't have to worry about winding up in hell.  You will be secure for eternity.  If I believed as you do, I would have to believe born again Christians, overcomers, saints of God already in heaven, could rebel and become lost. 

 

Like I said before please go and review post #6.That can not happen.I can not grasp the things you have said.They are not Biblical therefore I do not believe it is healthy for me to digest what you have said.