Life or Death?

[salt and light]

I believe an unsaved person's soul goes to a place of torment {hell} immediately upon death, just like the rich man in Luke chapter 16, and at the Great White Throne Judgment, the lost souls in hell will get out and be judged, "...........and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."{Rev. 20:13} After that final judgement, they will be cast into the lake of fire, "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire....." {Rev. 20:14.} A saved person goes immediately to be with the Lord at death. "absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord" {2 Cor. 5:8]. There are multitudes of saved souls in heaven right now, and they will all come with Jesus when He returns. '"........even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.' [1 Thess. 4:14}. Their souls are not sleeping in heaven, just their physical bodys in the grave are. "...........the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints"{Jude 14] They are in heaven, and they are not sleeping, and they will return with the Lord. Yes, when a person dies, they either go be with the Lord, or they go to a literal hell to be tormented depending on if they were saved or not. Only their physical body knows nothing at all.

[eric]

Nice try HOIC, but I think you are a bit out of your league on these boards. Pretty well versed in the Word are our members. Keep searching and you will find the truth.

God be with you,

regards,

eric.

[Guest hopeonlyinChrist]

Wow! Ok, I'm convinced, you guys are right and I'm wrong. Just kidding. But really, this is my first exploration into a discussion group, and I am rather overwhelmed by the flood of responses. I am afraid I would need to be up day & night to respond to each of you. So could you please hold your fire? I feel like I'm in a foxhole with a hail of lead passing over my head.

I have a request. I would like to continue this discussion with one of your champions, that way I can concentrate on that line of reasoning without doubling back and forth to cover areas previously mentioned. Is this possible?

Horizoneast, you seem a possible candidate. What do you think? Or just a waste of time to you? Or Botz?

Anyway, you have given me a lot of Scripture verses to wrestle with, and that will take me some time and thought. I just wanted to drop in and say "Howdy" for now.

Hey Nebula, I'm originally from Upper Marlboro, you anywhere close to there?

Gotta go, I hope everyone has a very lovely, Christ-centered Christmas.

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God."

"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

[nebula]

Hey Nebula, I'm originally from Upper Marlboro, you anywhere close to there?

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Hey!

I'm from Columbia - I guess that's about an hour or so - give or take 15 minutes depending on route and driving speed - away?

[Guest hopeonlyinChrist]

Hey! I'm from Columbia - I guess that's about an hour or so - give or take 15 minutes depending on route and driving speed - away?

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[Guest hopeonlyinChrist]

Hellos again,

Thanks Horizoneast for your last response, I do appreciate your spirit. I know my attitude towards those who don't view things as I do can come across as very pharisaical, , but I really do believe in my heart that God's children are in no way limited to any particular group. So thanks for the invite back to the boards.

One thing I noticed between your two posts I feel illustrates the problem of inconsistency with the immaterialist position.

Solomon is simply saying in Ecclesiastes that the dead cannot observe earthly activities because, the

[Guest hopeonlyinChrist]

Horizoneast, I am back. I must say I think I tasted a little of Jonah's misery in that beast's belly. I caught the influenza bug, and boy was that something terrible. I absolutely couldn't do more than lay around and moan for almost five days, couldn't eat, couldn't drink, but God did have mercy on my sick soul, and I am finally feeling well again.

Well, where to start. How about the rich man and Lazarus? Obviously you feel that this is an actual picture of the afterlife experience for these two particular souls. I did deal somewhat with this story in an earlier post which I will reprint here.

How could these be souls in their after death state? I thought their bodies were still in the grave till the resurrection? But according to this account, the rich man has eyes to lift up, he has a tongue to be cooled, and Lazarus has at least one finger. So do we then understand that when a person dies they carry a few body parts with them into eternity?

Where do these immaterial beings come across these body parts? Personally, I don't see how you can squeeze this story into a literal interpretation, it doesn't seem to fit too well.

I think we would both agree that a parable is

[nebula]

How could these be souls in their after death state? I thought their bodies were still in the grave till the resurrection? But according to this account, the rich man has eyes to lift up, he has a tongue to be cooled, and Lazarus has at least one finger. So do we then understand that when a person dies they carry a few body parts with them into eternity?

Where do these immaterial beings come across these body parts? Personally, I don't see how you can squeeze this story into a literal interpretation, it doesn't seem to fit too well.

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I noticed you are making an assumption about the make-up of the soul.

Why would a spirit-body not have eyes and a tongue and fingers?

Just because the soul, or the spirit body, is not made of the same material as the physical body does not have to mean it does not have the same types of parts.

[Guest hopeonlyinChrist]

I thought you would have a better defense than the old

[Guest quadding101]

Abraham's bosom was a place located next to hell that does not exist anymore. The purpose of Abraham's bosom was a place for the saints of old to await the coming of the Christ. When Jesus went into the abyss one of the things He did was to preach Himself allow all the saints of old to accept Him because Jesus is the only way to God and heaven. When Jesus ascended to heaven the saints of old went to heaven and there was no longer a reason for Abraham's bosom so hell hath enlarged itself. (it all became hell) If we r believe the story of Abraham's bosom and lazarus then people that die that r going to hell go there immediately. There is some thought that we either go to heaven or we wait in the grave until resurrection and I believe what Paul said ( to be absent from the body (dead) is to be with the Lord).