the two witnesses?

[other one]

you guys are enormously confusing...

[justfaith]

Why the church which consist of both Jews and Gentiles are the two witnesses 

 

Biblical use of the 1260 day/years


Daniel 7.25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

A Time = 1 year 360 days
Times = 2 years 720 days 
Dividing of Times = 1/2 year. 180 days 

 

360+720+180 = 1260

Daniel 12.7
And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Rev. 11.2
But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev. 11.3
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Forty two months = 42 X 30 = 1260
one thousand Two hundred and threescore = 1260
Rev. 12.6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev. 12.14
And to the woman  (Church )were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 1260 years 42 months 3 1/2 years or days 
Rev. 13.5,8
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months...and all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
This same power depicted as controlling religious affairs for 1260 years, will again arise. It's deadly wound healed. Together with the "power of the dragon" and "force of the second beast" the world will be brought to a crises. (See Rev. 13) the dark ages wen the church was persecuted 

Edited August 21, 2014 by justfaith

[justfaith]

Isaiah 43:10

 

10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

 

For both the Jew and the gentile 

[Guest Jesse]

Why the church which consist of both Jews and Gentiles are the two witnesses 

 

Biblical use of the 1260 day/years

Daniel 7.25

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

A Time = 1 year 360 days

Times = 2 years 720 days 

Dividing of Times = 1/2 year. 180 days 

 

360+720+180 = 1260

Daniel 12.7

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Rev. 11.2

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Rev. 11.3

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Forty two months = 42 X 30 = 1260

one thousand Two hundred and threescore = 1260

Rev. 12.6

And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev. 12.14

And to the woman  (Church )were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 1260 years 42 months 3 1/2 years or days 

Rev. 13.5,8

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months...and all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This same power depicted as controlling religious affairs for 1260 years, will again arise. It's deadly wound healed. Together with the "power of the dragon" and "force of the second beast" the world will be brought to a crises. (See Rev. 13) the dark ages wen the church was persecuted 

Revelation 12 does not belong there. That has been fulfilled. 

That was when Paul was after the small remnant of christians.The dragon sends a flood to overtake them

in Damascus,but Paul was stopped by the voice of Jesus speaking.

The flood was swallowed up by the earth.And Paul joined the remnant.

 

jesse.

[ARGOSY]

 

Why is your theory so important that you neglect what is written in scripture? Why is there a need to create a theory that the two witnesses have to be something but two individual people who are His witnesses?

 

 

Hi OneLight,

 

I don't see scripture actually saying its two people. Olive trees, are traditional symbols for believing Israel and believing Gentiles:

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

 

Candlesticks are symbols for city-based churches:

 Rev 1:20 the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 

And so the two candlesticks in Jerusalem are more likely a two-part Jerusalem based church.   The two parts of the Jerusalem church are most likely Judah/Israel  or  Israel/Gentiles. 

 

I believe this is the nearest we can get to defining the two witnesses, given the obvious symbolism of olive trees and lampstands which have a stronger precedent of being applied to groups of people and not individuals in the New Testament.  Rev 11 speaks to me of a concentration of Israeli Christians in Jerusalem, and these Jerusalem based Christians being given a special prophetic anointing to speak against the kingdoms of this world. They get this special anointing through the  3.5 years of the beast's reign in the very place (Jerusalem)  where the beast comes to power and appears to the world according to 2 Thessalonians 2. 

[Guest Jesse]

 

 

 

 

 The good olive tree are all God's people and they are the saved from the JEWs and GENTILE, are the wild olive tree 

 

 and together they  are called the ISRAEL OF GOD (Gal 6:16), 

Yes I agree,but the olive tree is God the branches are the jews,but for now broken off.

The wild olive branches are grafted unto the tree = Christians;  also called spiritual israel.

 

jesse.

 

The TWO GROUPS of people who are the ONLY TWO WITNESSES in all the earth who stand for the only true and wise God ARE number 1, the true believers in Christ Jesus the Son of God, otherwise know as Christians or formally known as the WILD OLIVE TREE; and number 2, the other witness standing before the one true God is ISRAEL, which is the NATURAL OLIVE TREE.

So you see we have TWO different GROUPS of people who stand for the God of the earth, and it is these TWO GROUPS who are the TWO WITNESSES spoke of in the book of Revelation.

We can see these TWO GROUPS, the Jews, who believe in Almighty God the Father, and the Christians, those who believe in Jesus, the Son of God as their savior all through the book of Revelation as well as the rest of the word of God.

Take a look at Revelation 20:4 which says,“...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the WITNESS of Jesus AND for the WORD of God.”

  

 

thanks 

 

Just faith.

 

Please explain why they(the two) are taken up. verse 11.12.

And then after, the 7th trumpet, which is the resurrection? verse 15.

 

 

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

DEAD BODIES?

Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

GRAVES?

 

Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

 

ALL OF THEM JEWS AND CHRISTIANS?

Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

jesse.

 

 

I believe that the 2 witnesses are Israel  and the true Gentile believers in Christ. Throughout the Scriptures, in both the Old and New Testaments, the Bible teaches that Israel is the olive tree. The gentiles are the wild olive tree  Revelation teaches that the Church is the lampstand. The two olive trees are the Jewish and Gentile believers in Christ (see Romans 11). The 2 lampstands are the Jewish Church and the Gentile Church (see Revelation 1:20). The olive trees and lampstands are one and the same, representing the same thing – God’s anointed and chosen people. 

 

The two witnesses, who are two lampstands (churches) and two olive trees (Gentile and Jewish converts to Jesus) are the anointed ones who prophesy and pronounce God’s judgment upon the nations during the 42 months prior to their death. Rev 12:17 “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.” 

 

Just faith.

 

Why dont you answer my question?

 

Why are  the churches taken up before the 7th trumpet; the last trump? rev.11:15.

 

jesse.

[OneLight]

Just faith.

 

Why dont you answer my question?

 

Why are  the churches taken up before the 7th trumpet; the last trump? rev.11:15.

 

jesse.

May I suggest that you show through scripture that the churches are taken up before the last trump. I don't believe they are.

[Guest Jesse]

 

Just faith.

 

Why dont you answer my question?

 

Why are  the churches taken up before the 7th trumpet; the last trump? rev.11:15.

 

jesse.

May I suggest that you show through scripture that the churches are taken up before the last trump. I don't believe they are.

 

No. The resurrection will be at the last trump,not before.

 

jesse.

[Montana Marv]

If you want to look at the harpozo (Rapture), All of the Bride go with the trumpet call of God.  1 Thes 4:16-18.  If you go into the Mill, those living on earth do not have a resurrected body, yet they are peoples from every tribe, language and nation (those of Zech 14:16).  When will some of these receive their new bodies. (post Mill).  Don't lump the Resurrection into a one time event.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[justfaith]

If you want to look at the harpozo (Rapture), All of the Bride go with the trumpet call of God.  1 Thes 4:16-18.  If you go into the Mill, those living on earth do not have a resurrected body, yet they are peoples from every tribe, language and nation (those of Zech 14:16).  When will some of these receive their new bodies. (post Mill).  Don't lump the Resurrection into a one time event.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

where does it say that the ones left will be saved or get a second chance ?