Our standing with God and it's implications for us

[Sola Scriptora]

Here's part Two:

How many of our sin

Edited December 29, 2004 by Sola Scriptora

[carlos123]

Dear Sola Scriptura.

I don't dispute the fact that the article you posted (either written by you or by someone else I do not know) contains some points that make one think but overall, and I feel I must say this, the author (whoever he or she may be) is more caught up in a wrangling about words and a disputing of things than in coming to appreciate what Christ DID do on the cross for him or her.

I do not think it takes a doctor of divinity to understand or appreciate what Jesus did on the cross. The author to me comes accross as one of those Christians who know little of Christ and much about theology that on the whole does not even appear very sound to me. Theology in the sense of knowledge without much relationship that is.

Instead of going point by point and using verses to support his/her statements I see not a single verse pointed to or referenced in the authors entire discourse! As a result the piece seems more like an exposition of religious opinion than a telling of God's view on things.

I do not mean to offend Sola Scriptura but sometimes, and I believe this is one of those times, one must call it as they see it. The article you posted does not strike me as encouraging, edifying, correct in many of it's suppositions, or worth even disputing over.

Carlos

[carlos123]

I take back what I said about not seeing a single verse in the entire discourse. I see them now on a second glance over the article . When I wrote as I did all I was seeing in my mind's eye and all that was left in it was the exposition of opinion that the article seemed particularly full of.

Carlos

[tsth]

Forgive me for repeating myself, but again I say,

You really ought to understand grace.............then your question would be understood. If we comprehend grace we are more capable to be at peace in our standing with God, or not.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Sola Scriptora]

I do not think it takes a doctor of divinity to understand or appreciate what Jesus did on the cross. The author to me comes accross as one of those Christians who know little of Christ and much about theology that on the whole does not even appear very sound to me. Theology in the sense of knowledge without much relationship that is

Carlos, don't you think this is entering into the "judgementalism" realm? Do you really think you know this brother's walk based on reading these two articles???

[carlos123]

Forgive me for repeating myself, but again I say,

You really ought to understand grace.............then your question would be understood.  If we comprehend grace we are more capable to be at peace in our standing with God, or not.

Hi Suzanne...I was thinking of your post elsewhere wondering where yoiu had said that and thinking that I should find it and respond when voila there you are . I sorta lost it in the responses I was receiving in the last couple of days. Sorry about that.

Can you be more speciific abotu what it is that I do not understand Suzanne? I know you said grace but the term grace can emcompass quite a bit. For example do I not understand what Jesus did on the cross, God's holiness as constrasted with our sinfulness, our spiritually bankrupt condition and God's unmerited favor in giving us a way to be saved, etc.?

I guess I am not quite sure where I may be misunderstanding grace. If you could expand on that and be more specific that would be great. I may indeed have a misunderstanding somewhere but I need a better handle to hang on to before I can say "Yup....my understanding is off...." .

Carlos

[carlos123]

Carlos, don't you think this is entering into the "judgementalism" realm?  Do you really think you know this brother's walk based on reading these two articles???

A valid question Sola Scriptura.

No I do not know this brother's walk with God. I am responding to what I see written in his article. I could be wrong and will the first to admit it if I am but his article strikes me as a particularly nasty example of the kind of religious tripe that undermines faith.

It questions many things that I believe are fundamentals of the gospel such as Christ dying for our sins and His atonement and substitutionary death in our place on the cross. Becoming sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

I have been known in times past to be a bit judgemental and perhaps in this case some of that may be going on in my heart. I do not believe it is but it could be.

But if I am being judgemental may I ask what you would have thought of Paul saying the following type of things....

Titus 1:10

For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach

[tsth]

Dear Carlos,

I really like your indepth post.  I think that there is much to take in when reading it.  It must be taken in at least twice to really think on it. 

I would only add this in the understanding of our new standing "in Christ Jesus".  It is to understand that grace has a working purpose in our lives as well, in regard to sin and our day to day lives.  Here is the teaching on grace that applies here as well.

Titus 2:11  For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12  teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,

Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Hebrews 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

The death of Jesus Christ and His shed blood, affords us the power to live in accordance to God's ways.  Pleasing to Him in His Righteousness and Power, overcoming the strongholds of sin, and effectively displaying the Power of God working in us and through us.  To be able to serve God acceptably with reverance and awe.

We must truly understand and take hold in belief/faith, the function and power of grace as the Power of God working in us and through us.

In His Love,

Suzanne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe this is the reality of grace:

The death of Jesus Christ and His shed blood, affords us the power to live in accordance to God's ways. Pleasing to Him in His Righteousness and Power, overcoming the strongholds of sin, and effectively displaying the Power of God working in us and through us. To be able to serve God acceptably with reverance and awe. If we begin to think of the actual work that Jesus accomplished on that cross for us, we would better understand the power we have over "sin", for His power was so magnificent, it even accomplished life over death, therefore it is sufficient for us to have the power to live godly lives, pleasing to our Father, if we so choose, to follow Jesus and take hold of it. Grace is an Awesome misunderstood gift. It is Alive and active within us, if we believe.

Also, here's an indepth thread on grace that might be helpful:

Grace Defined

I really hope that the church of today can see past the fuzzy use of the word grace in today's church and realize the substance of "grace". Grace is VERY DEFINABLE, and can be taken hold of, rather than just a word, grace is an action/shield against the power of sin, if we would just realize how power-filled GRACE really Is-----and begin walking in it!!!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you Saint's,

I was want to read this, this morning;

Deuteronomy 30.

Even this portion right here;

De

[Guest PistosHuios]

I am intrigued by what is posted. First, what has been originally written is marvelous truth. That has been my perception for a long time.

"The way I see it the essence of the difference between unbelievers and Christians is not that one sins and one does not, for we all sin at various times and in various ways,"

I read this and I wanted to add this. The major difference I see between Christians and Non-Chrsistians is that a Non-Believer is not capable of pleasing God. Their desires, although they may seem well intentioned, are rooted in a selfish and sinful nature.

When Christ saves us, we are freed from sin and again able to choose to be Godly. It is much like Romans 6, we move from slavery to sin, to slavery to righteous. Because God places in us new desires, and gives us an ability to glorify him that unbelievers can not understand.

The sobering part is that every choice we make is no longer bound by the sin nature, and we have little excuse to do it. To the true believer, sin is an abomination, although it does still hold its temporary appeal, we despise it, if not before, quickly after. If not, then one would need to question whether or not Christ has saved them, because if sin holds its appeal to you still, why did you ever seek freedom from it?

Indeed we are blessed by a sovereign Grace. I believe that God chooses us one by one (I know many do not share that belief) and either way you look at it God almighty places New Desires upon his creature, desires that change how we look at life.

Thank the Lord for his Grace, and thanks for this post, it was a great reminder to me.

God Bless