Tribulation Believers

[Montana Marv]

 

Yet, Michael is the great prince who protects Daniels people; and this is the time of the great distress mentioned in Matt 24:21. or the last half of the 70th week.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Like I said, look at the Dan.10 chapter events which include the subject of withholding in relation to 2 Thess.2:6-7.

 

Dan 10:13-14

13    But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

14    Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

(KJV)

Dan 10:20-21

20    Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

21    But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

(KJV)

 

The events described to Daniel by the angel are Heavenly pattern events that affect events upon the earth. That's the viewpoint of that chapter. The "prince of Persia" in that chapter is a symbolic title for Satan.

 

At Dan.12:1 the Archangel Micael makes a 'stand' (in Heaven), and then a description of the tribulation time is given. Per Rev.12:7 forward, it is the Archangel Michael that wars with Satan in Heaven when the dragon is cast down to the earth with his angels.

 

Thus the idea some have that the one doing the withholding of 2 Thess.2:6 being The Holy Spirit is simply an idea from men that have forgotten one of the subjects of Dan.10 and Dan.12:1 in relation to Rev.12:7-9 linked with Matt.24:21, or they purposefully omit that Scripture link in order to serve the pre-trib rapture theories of men.

 

Salty

 

So I see you inserted in () (in Heaven) and also put in; makes a "stand", instead of arises.  It appears the Michael is a major protector of Israel.  Yes the dragon is cast to earth after the war in Heaven, by Michael and his angels; but the protection of Israel is upon the earth where Satan is not allowed to harm them.  But Rev 12:13 - When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman (Israel) who had given (past tense) birth to the male child (Jesus Christ).  And she was protected for 3 1/2 years.  In Dan 12:1 Michael arises (comes forth) to meet their needs at the time of great distress.  Michael wars in Heaven against Satan, when Satan is cast down to earth, Michael then comes forth to keep Israel safe from Satan's onslaught to try to destroy Israel.  I see the Rider of the 1st Seal as Satan being cast of earth.  And then the final half of the 70th Week begins.

 

That is how I see it.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Salty]

 

 

Yet, Michael is the great prince who protects Daniels people; and this is the time of the great distress mentioned in Matt 24:21. or the last half of the 70th week.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

Like I said, look at the Dan.10 chapter events which include the subject of withholding in relation to 2 Thess.2:6-7.

 

Dan 10:13-14

13    But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

14    Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

(KJV)

Dan 10:20-21

20    Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

21    But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

(KJV)

 

The events described to Daniel by the angel are Heavenly pattern events that affect events upon the earth. That's the viewpoint of that chapter. The "prince of Persia" in that chapter is a symbolic title for Satan.

 

At Dan.12:1 the Archangel Micael makes a 'stand' (in Heaven), and then a description of the tribulation time is given. Per Rev.12:7 forward, it is the Archangel Michael that wars with Satan in Heaven when the dragon is cast down to the earth with his angels.

 

Thus the idea some have that the one doing the withholding of 2 Thess.2:6 being The Holy Spirit is simply an idea from men that have forgotten one of the subjects of Dan.10 and Dan.12:1 in relation to Rev.12:7-9 linked with Matt.24:21, or they purposefully omit that Scripture link in order to serve the pre-trib rapture theories of men.

 

Salty

 

So I see you inserted in () (in Heaven) and also put in; makes a "stand", instead of arises.  It appears the Michael is a major protector of Israel.  Yes the dragon is cast to earth after the war in Heaven, by Michael and his angels; but the protection of Israel is upon the earth where Satan is not allowed to harm them.  But Rev 12:13 - When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman (Israel) who had given (past tense) birth to the male child (Jesus Christ).  And she was protected for 3 1/2 years.  In Dan 12:1 Michael arises (comes forth) to meet their needs at the time of great distress.  Michael wars in Heaven against Satan, when Satan is cast down to earth, Michael then comes forth to keep Israel safe from Satan's onslaught to try to destroy Israel.  I see the Rider of the 1st Seal as Satan being cast of earth.  And then the final half of the 70th Week begins.

 

That is how I see it.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

Though Dan.12:1 KJV says Michael will "stand up" the Hebrew word for that means 'to stand' (Strong's no. 5975). That's why I interpreted it to mean he will literally make a 'stand'.

 

The viewpoint in Dan.10 which Daniel is shown is in the Heavenly. The whole chapter is about a Heavenly pattern of events that have their effect with events upon the earth, so we're actually in agreement on that point. The difference is that God's angels do not have to physically be on the earth in order to do that.

 

The Rev.12:7 event of the dragon cast to earth with his angels and then goes to make war with the saints on earth is pointing directly to the last half of Daniel's "one week", what Christ called the "great tribulation" in Matt.24. That's what the subject is in Dan.12:1 right after Michael stands up, as we are then told, "...and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:..."

 

That doesn't mean Christ's faithful aren't protected, but the actual question should be - protected from what specifically that the dragon will try to do upon God's people in that time? We are shown that later in Rev.12 also:

 

Rev 12:15

15    And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

(KJV)

 

We well know that water does not come out one's mouth like a real flood, so what does our Lord mean by that? Words come out of one's mouth, and that's what will come out that serpent-dragon's mouth once he is cast to this earth with his angels to go after God's faithful on earth. The meaning is about lies that cause deception coming out of the serpent's mouth like how a flood of waters works. God first gave this flood idea as a metaphor back in the OT prophets.

 

Thus the type... of protection upon Christ's faithful in that time will be a spiritual protection against the serpent's lies, against deception. That was our Lord Jesus' first warning in His Olivet Discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13, to take heed that no man deceive us. It was also Apostle Paul's warning in 2 Thess.2 when he declared the end time event of the Antichrist coming to sit in a temple in Jerusalem proclaiming himself as God, exalting himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped (2 Thess.2:3-4).

 

I agree about the rider on the first horse of Rev.6 is about the dragon cast to the earth for the end. That is 6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th vial timing (666). (Consider Rev.6:13 about the stars being angels).

Edited May 20, 2014 by Salty