Is smoking tobacco a sin ?

[Jerry1023]

The bible said that a prayer of a sinner,is abomination to God,

@dsiciplehelovestoo, how can you reconcile a lost son back to God? By encouraging him to smoke?

I myself, i spend many years in the kingdom of darkness,i use to be a useless sinner before,

But on 27th of may 2013"

I had an encounter with Jesus,

the pastor that God use to mark a new era in my life,

told me many things a genuine child of God,

is not supposed to do,

he told me boldly that this kind of life will only lead me to destruction,

he did not beat around the bush,he hit the point, by telling me that patronizing harlot and womanizing here and there is a sin,

and what the pastor was telling me was exactly what i was doing,

was he judging me? No

he was simple telling me the gosple truth,

the bible said, you shall know the truth,and the truth shall set you free,

Jesus said in John 6:63"

The words that i speaks to you,they are spirit and they are life,

God use that pastor to brought me back to life,

I knew who i was before,and i know who iam now,

and since 27th of may 2013"

Till now, no single regret,it has been from grace to grace,from glory to glory,

I had been a christian from my mother womb,

because i was born into a christian family,

i was only following Christ,without doing the will of God,and without living the examplary life,

Jesus set for those that believed in Him to live,

,

that very day i knew the difference between a christian and a born

again,

A divine being enter into my life and changed me for good,to the glory of God,

only God by His great mercy can do this,

iam only trying to point out something here,

so that brother dsiciplehelovestoo will learn,

and stop misunderstanding the word of God,

by believing that, rebuking,and someone saying the truth is [judging]

Now we know that God hearth not sinners,but if any one be a worshipper of God,and doeth his will,him he heareth,

John 9:31"

How can you preach the gosple to a lost son,or someone who is still living in sin?

if not by telling the person that what he is doing is against the will of God,

by telling him that he is commiting sin against God,

We know the works of sin,and we know the works of righteousness,

@brother dsiciplehelovestoo,

we are debating on one topic,

with three different believe,

and you brought in the issue of judging,because someone address sin by it name,

any body that indulge in sex out side marriage is commiting sin,

and that person is a sinner,

that is my believe,

I want to see the end of this debate,

Is smoking tobaco a sin?

we have three believe here,

1 some say it is not a sin,but it is not wise to smoke,

2 some say it is a sin,

3 some encourage believer to smoke,because no passage in the bible,directly ask believer to abstain from smoking.

[disciplehelovestoo]

 

yes, because some do not yet see that the discussion isn't about what actions are sin, but about who has the ability to judge sin.

 

the core issue here is what you are focused on - your performance or God's leading; your ability to judge sin and righteousness versus His.

 if you make your own decisions about what is sin, then you are focused on your performance and led by your own reasoning and have rejected God's leading - even if your judgement happens to be correct; you are fallen from grace and fully accountable under the law for any and every sin.  if you are led by God, you are free from the law in that it is no longer your responsibility to interpret and apply the law, as you have yielded this right back to God - and He will never lead you to sin.  in the latter case, your sins that occur due to missing His leading are covered by mercy through Jesus' sacrifice for your sins; in the former case they are not.

What is the most basic Gospel message we are commanded in the bible to share? What is the "good news" of the gospel? Isn't the Gospel message that we are commanded to share  " there is remission ( Forgiveness ) of sin in Jesus Christ alone, that our relationship with God can be restored? Is that not it? There is remission of sin in Jesus Christ! How exactly are we suppose to tell people that there is remission/Forgiveness of sin in Jesus Christ if we can't tell people what sin is?

 

  Telling someone something is a sin is not judging sin. To say it is would be nonsense. Jesus Christ in his ministry called things and people that were in the wrong, just that. That they were wrong, and sinning. Jesus went so far as to say some had the devil as there father. Jesus also said he never judged anyone while here on earth the first time. So was Jesus wrong? Jesus said we were to follow his example and he told people when they were doing things that we not right in God's eyes. Are you saying we are not to follow Jesus' example?    

 

 

P.S. I walked away from this thread for a bit to gather my thoughts and pray and realized something. Me and others have been saying smoking is wrong and a sin. You have been saying we are wrong, in the flesh, judging and in sin because it's not our place to say something is a sin. We say something is wrong and sin, you say by defining what sin is we are wrong and in sin ourselves.....but isn't that what your doing? By telling us we are following the flesh, wrong and in sin by labeling smoking as a sin, you are doing the same thing we are, labeling something as sin and wrong. How is what you are doing condemning us as judging and walking in the flesh any different from us say smoking is a sin???? 

 

I'm done with this thread.

 

May God bless you all

Firestormx

Joseph

 

 

Jesus did pay the price for the sins of the whole world; past present and future; and this was something only He could do - but remissions of sins was not why He came:

 

Joh 10:10

(10)  The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

Joh 17:3

(3)  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

people were afraid to approach God because they feared His judgement for their sins; yes, Jesus came to remove every reason that man might have to fear God's judgment; but even more, Jesus came to remove all reasons why man might not seek fellowship with God -  forgiveness of sins was a huge part of that, but it wasn't all He did for us.  He made us joint-heirs with Him, and He took the curse of the law for us.  from God's perspective, sins (wrong thoughts and actions) are not an issue, He honors Jesus' sacrifice for all wrong thoughts and actions - what sends people to hell is rejecting a relationship with God based solely on faith in His grace, and independent of their performance, good or bad.

 

the good news of the gospel is not remission of sins; that's true, but that's not the almost-too-good-to-be-true news of the gospel - the good news of the gospel is that you can know God, which IS life eternal, based on faith in His grace, and regardless of your own performance, good or bad.  

 

Jesus was very hard on some people; but not adulterers, or prostitutes, or thieves (or smokers) - Jesus was hard on the self-righteous - those who thought that their own holiness based in their performance could gain them favor with God; these were those whom He said were of their father the devil.  where did Jesus point out someone's wrong thoughts or actions aside from those He called hypocrites?  

 

when you received spiritual rebirth, did God immediately point out all your wrong thoughts and actions and expect you to turn completely from all of your 'sins' instantly and never make another mistake?  or did He start with one or two things that you needed to change, and once you understood about those things, show you another one or two more things you need to change, etc.?  He does this with everyone; but many seem to think He needs help with this - that they should point out other people's 'sins' to them independent of God's leading; this was exactly what the pharisees were doing in John 8:3 that led Jesus to tell them that they were of their father the devil in John 8:44 - they were pointing out someone's sins.

 

many feel competent to judge actions as sins that aren't dealt with in the scriptures; much like the pharisees judged people who didn't wash their hands before they ate:

 

Mar 7:5-8

(5)  Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

(6)  He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

(7)  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

(8)  For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

 

notice Jesus' harsh response - would He be saying this to those who call smoking sin and point this out to fellow believers who smoke?

 

i never said that we should never point out when a believer is in sin; i said we have to be careful to be led by God to do this or it will merely bring condemnation on that believer; and this only for those wrong thoughts and actions that God has defined as 'sins' in the scriptures - if God didn't clearly point out that smoking is sin, then why do you feel that you can make this decision for Him?

 

the difference between what i am doing and what you are doing here in this thread is that i have clear scripture to stand on for what i believe...

 

don't quit the thread; show scriptures for your beliefs instead - don't let offense stop you from helping the silent readers who are following this.

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

 

 

 

 

people were afraid to approach God because they feared His judgement for their sins; yes, Jesus came to remove every reason that man might have to fear God's judgment; but even more, Jesus came to remove all reasons why man might not seek fellowship with God -  forgiveness of sins was a huge part of that, but it wasn't all He did for us.  He made us joint-heirs with Him, and He took the curse of the law for us.  from God's perspective, sins (wrong thoughts and actions) are not an issue, He honors Jesus' sacrifice for all wrong thoughts and actions - what sends people to hell is rejecting a relationship with God based solely on faith in His grace, and independent of their performance, good or bad.

 

the good news of the gospel is not remission of sins; that's true, but that's not the almost-too-good-to-be-true news of the gospel - the good news of the gospel is that you can know God, which IS life eternal, based on faith in His grace, and regardless of your own performance, good or bad.  

 

Jesus was very hard on some people; but not adulterers, or prostitutes, or thieves (or smokers) - Jesus was hard on the self-righteous - those who thought that their own holiness based in their performance could gain them favor with God; these were those whom He said were of their father the devil.  where did Jesus point out someone's wrong thoughts or actions aside from those He called hypocrites?  

 

Jesus was actually very tough on sin.  Jesus didn't just condemn the sins of the self-righteous.  He told the sinners to go and sin no more.  He didn't cut them any slack, either. 

 

when you received spiritual rebirth, did God immediately point out all your wrong thoughts and actions and expect you to turn completely from all of your 'sins' instantly and never make another mistake?  or did He start with one or two things that you needed to change, and once you understood about those things, show you another one or two more things you need to change, etc.? 

 

God commands to flee from all sin.  He doesn't pick out just one two. Light that shines in our hearts to reveal sin is a floodlight not a penlight.

 

 He does this with everyone; but many seem to think He needs help with this - that they should point out other people's 'sins' to them independent of God's leading; this was exactly what the pharisees were doing in John 8:3 that led Jesus to tell them that they were of their father the devil in John 8:44 - they were pointing out someone's sins.

 

We are called to expose sin.  Read Ephesians 5.  We are called to expose the deeds of darkness.  We are called to call sin what it is.  We are not judging others, but we are exposing what is or is not sin.

 

 

many feel competent to judge actions as sins that aren't dealt with in the scriptures; much like the pharisees judged people who didn't wash their hands before they ate:

Mar 7:5-8

(5)  Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

(6)  He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

(7)  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

(8)  For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

 

notice Jesus' harsh response - would He be saying this to those who call smoking sin and point this out to fellow believers who smoke?

No, He wouldn't.  You can't compare a ritual tradition with a self-destructive habit that detracts from God's glory.  Your comparison is invalid.   Smoking isn't a religious tradition or ritual.  So it is not analogous to hand washing.
 

 

 

i never said that we should never point out when a believer is in sin; i said we have to be careful to be led by God to do this or it will merely bring condemnation on that believer; and this only for those wrong thoughts and actions that God has defined as 'sins' in the scriptures - if God didn't clearly point out that smoking is sin, then why do you feel that you can make this decision for Him?

 

the difference between what i am doing and what you are doing here in this thread is that i have clear scripture to stand on for what i believe...

 

That is false.  You have been provided Scripture and your consistent misuse and mishandling of Scripture has correctted and refuted many times over.

 

 

 

don't quit the thread; show scriptures for your beliefs instead - don't let offense stop you from helping the silent readers who are following this.

 

 

You have been provided Scriptures many times and you ignore them.  Asking for what has already been provided, and ignored and then returning to thread as if nothing has been provided is a dishonest tactic.

 

[disciplehelovestoo]

The bible said that a prayer of a sinner,is abomination to God,

@dsiciplehelovestoo, how can you reconcile a lost son back to God? By encouraging him to smoke?

I myself, i spend many years in the kingdom of darkness,i use to be a useless sinner before,

But on 27th of may 2013"

I had an encounter with Jesus,

the pastor that God use to mark a new era in my life,

told me many things a genuine child of God,

is not supposed to do,

he told me boldly that this kind of life will only lead me to destruction,

he did not beat around the bush,he hit the point, by telling me that patronizing harlot and womanizing here and there is a sin,

and what the pastor was telling me was exactly what i was doing,

was he judging me? No

he was simple telling me the gosple truth,

the bible said, you shall know the truth,and the truth shall set you free,

Jesus said in John 6:63"

The words that i speaks to you,they are spirit and they are life,

God use that pastor to brought me back to life,

I knew who i was before,and i know who iam now,

and since 27th of may 2013"

Till now, no single regret,it has been from grace to grace,from glory to glory,

I had been a christian from my mother womb,

because i was born into a christian family,

i was only following Christ,without doing the will of God,and without living the examplary life,

Jesus set for those that believed in Him to live,

,

that very day i knew the difference between a christian and a born

again,

A divine being enter into my life and changed me for good,to the glory of God,

only God by His great mercy can do this,

iam only trying to point out something here,

so that brother dsiciplehelovestoo will learn,

and stop misunderstanding the word of God,

by believing that, rebuking,and someone saying the truth is [judging]

Now we know that God hearth not sinners,but if any one be a worshipper of God,and doeth his will,him he heareth,

John 9:31"

How can you preach the gosple to a lost son,or someone who is still living in sin?

if not by telling the person that what he is doing is against the will of God,

by telling him that he is commiting sin against God,

We know the works of sin,and we know the works of righteousness,

@brother dsiciplehelovestoo,

we are debating on one topic,

with three different believe,

and you brought in the issue of judging,because someone address sin by it name,

any body that indulge in sex out side marriage is commiting sin,

and that person is a sinner,

that is my believe,

I want to see the end of this debate,

Is smoking tobaco a sin?

we have three believe here,

1 some say it is not a sin,but it is not wise to smoke,

2 some say it is a sin,

3 some encourage believer to smoke,because no passage in the bible,directly ask believer to abstain from smoking.

you aren't even coming CLOSE to quoting what i've said.  i NEVER said that people should smoke!!!  I haven't encouraged anyone to smoke at all anywhere in anything i've said!!!  the problem isn't your cellphone; you could write down what i said and re-type it if you wanted to quote me accurately, right?  i forgive you for saying that i said things i haven't said; i forgive you for judging me to be in error for sharing the WORD OF GOD that i base my beliefs on.  

 

you can ask me a thousand times and my answer will be the same: smoking is a sin for you if you think it is; and if you don't think it is, then it is not a sin for you; because it is not clearly defined as sin in the scripture - GOD HAS NOT DEFINED SMOKING AS SIN IN HIS WORD.  you believe it is a sin, but you have no clear scripture (WORD OF GOD) to stand on for this belief - yet surely you have scripture to stand on for your salvation, right?   why is this subject different?

 

you say that i misunderstand scripture; you say that "a prayer of a sinner,is abomination to God"; where is this in scripture?  are you referring to this:

 

Pro 15:8

(8)  The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

 

do you actually believe that you are completely righteous - perfect in your thoughts and actions - that YOUR prayers are not the prayers of a sinner from the perspective of God's law?

 

you've missed the whole point of salvation - it's not a 'second chance' where God picks you up, dusts you off, points you in the right direction and tells you to 'get it right this time' - the Christian life is not merely a changed life - it is an EXCHANGED life - one where we cease from striving to live perfectly by our own strength and understanding and strive instead to be led by God - in this way we die to ourselves and let God live through us.

 

Gal 1:6-9

(6)  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

(7)  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

(8)  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

(9)  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

Gal 2:19-21

(19)  For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

(20)  I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

(21)  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

Gal 3:1-6

(1)  O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

(2)  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

(3)  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

(4)  Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

(5)  He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

(6)  Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

 

Gal 3:10-14

(10)  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

(11)  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

(12)  And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

(13)  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

(14)  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

Gal 5:4-6

(4)  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

(5)  For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

(6)  For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

 

[disciplehelovestoo]

 

people were afraid to approach God because they feared His judgement for their sins; yes, Jesus came to remove every reason that man might have to fear God's judgment; but even more, Jesus came to remove all reasons why man might not seek fellowship with God -  forgiveness of sins was a huge part of that, but it wasn't all He did for us.  He made us joint-heirs with Him, and He took the curse of the law for us.  from God's perspective, sins (wrong thoughts and actions) are not an issue, He honors Jesus' sacrifice for all wrong thoughts and actions - what sends people to hell is rejecting a relationship with God based solely on faith in His grace, and independent of their performance, good or bad.

 

the good news of the gospel is not remission of sins; that's true, but that's not the almost-too-good-to-be-true news of the gospel - the good news of the gospel is that you can know God, which IS life eternal, based on faith in His grace, and regardless of your own performance, good or bad.  

 

Jesus was very hard on some people; but not adulterers, or prostitutes, or thieves (or smokers) - Jesus was hard on the self-righteous - those who thought that their own holiness based in their performance could gain them favor with God; these were those whom He said were of their father the devil.  where did Jesus point out someone's wrong thoughts or actions aside from those He called hypocrites?  

 

Jesus was actually very tough on sin.  Jesus didn't just condemn the sins of the self-righteous.  He told the sinners to go and sin no more.  He didn't cut them any slack, either. 

 

when you received spiritual rebirth, did God immediately point out all your wrong thoughts and actions and expect you to turn completely from all of your 'sins' instantly and never make another mistake?  or did He start with one or two things that you needed to change, and once you understood about those things, show you another one or two more things you need to change, etc.? 

 

God commands to flee from all sin.  He doesn't pick out just one two. Light that shines in our hearts to reveal sin is a floodlight not a penlight.

 

 He does this with everyone; but many seem to think He needs help with this - that they should point out other people's 'sins' to them independent of God's leading; this was exactly what the pharisees were doing in John 8:3 that led Jesus to tell them that they were of their father the devil in John 8:44 - they were pointing out someone's sins.

 

We are called to expose sin.  Read Ephesians 5.  We are called to expose the deeds of darkness.  We are called to call sin what it is.  We are not judging others, but we are exposing what is or is not sin.

 

 

many feel competent to judge actions as sins that aren't dealt with in the scriptures; much like the pharisees judged people who didn't wash their hands before they ate:

Mar 7:5-8

(5)  Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

(6)  He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

(7)  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

(8)  For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

 

notice Jesus' harsh response - would He be saying this to those who call smoking sin and point this out to fellow believers who smoke?

No, He wouldn't.  You can't compare a ritual tradition with a self-destructive habit that detracts from God's glory.  Your comparison is invalid.   Smoking isn't a religious tradition or ritual.  So it is not analogous to hand washing.

 

 

 

i never said that we should never point out when a believer is in sin; i said we have to be careful to be led by God to do this or it will merely bring condemnation on that believer; and this only for those wrong thoughts and actions that God has defined as 'sins' in the scriptures - if God didn't clearly point out that smoking is sin, then why do you feel that you can make this decision for Him?

 

the difference between what i am doing and what you are doing here in this thread is that i have clear scripture to stand on for what i believe...

 

That is false.  You have been provided Scripture and your consistent misuse and mishandling of Scripture has correctted and refuted many times over.

 

 

 

don't quit the thread; show scriptures for your beliefs instead - don't let offense stop you from helping the silent readers who are following this.

 

 

You have been provided Scriptures many times and you ignore them.  Asking for what has already been provided, and ignored and then returning to thread as if nothing has been provided is a dishonest tactic.

 

 

 

Ephesians 5 says absolutely nothing about smoking.  plucking verses out of context may help you justify your beliefs, and may in your mind give you the right to call me dishonest, but it does not move me at all.  you are not God; you are no authority that i need yield to - no matter how condescending and insulting you try to be.  in spite of that, i forgive you anyway.

[firestormx]

don't quit the thread; show scriptures for your beliefs instead - don't let offense stop you from helping the silent readers who are following this.

Last time I'm doing this. I will stop posting because you ignore any verse that don't fit your opinion. But, you are right, there are some silently watching who should see the truth no matter what.

 

1 Cor. 3:16-17

Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

 

1. does smoking cause cancer? Does cancer destroy the body? What does the above verse say about what will happen to those who willfully destroy the body like smoking does?

1 Corinthians 10:31

So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

 

2. Does smoking glorify God?

Romans 12:1

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

 

 

3. If our bodies are temples and to be presented as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, Does smoking, which destroys the body accomplish this? Does smoking glorify God in our Bodies?

 

1 John 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

4. Sin is the transgression of Gods word. If smoking destroys the body it transgress God's word, and that is sin! Does Smoking Glorify God in our Bodies, Helping us present our bodies as a living Sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God? If not it is transgressing God's word and that is sin!

 

 

The bible is very specific about how we are to present ourselves and our bodies to God. Smoking violates those verses and teachings, which makes it sin! Lastly, I never said remission of sins was why Jesus came, I said Remission or forgiveness of sin was the gospel message that we are commanded to tell everyone in word and deed, and to do that you must be able to tell people what a sin is. I don't know where this thought that if you say something is a sin, then you have to be judging came from. But it is not true. I am done. I have heard your argument and now I have post verses one last time to back up mine. I will pray for you. I am done with this thread. I said it, I mean it.

 

God bless

Firestormx

Joseph

Edited June 26, 2014 by firestormx

[alien224]

Welcome.

[Openly Curious]

 

disciplehelovestoo, on 25 Jun 2014 - 6:11 PM, said:

 

 

 

- but remissions of sins was not why He came:

 

  What ?  Are you sure about that?  hmmm I remember reading somewhere where Jesus did come for the remissions of sins like in.... 

 

Matthew 26:28 - For this is my blood of the new testament, which IS shed for many  for the remission of sins.

 

Mark 1:4 - John did baptize in the wilderness, and preached the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

 

Luke 1:77- To give knowledge of salvation unto his people "BY" the remission of their sins,

 

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,....

 

Acts 10:43 - To him give "all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

 

Romans 3:25 - Whom God "hath" set forth to be a propititiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

 

 

 

the good news of the gospel is not  remission of sins;   that's true,

 

No, what you are saying here is not true according to what I've also read in....

 

Hebrews 9:22 - And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; "and" without shedding of blood is no remission.

 

Hebrews 10:18 - Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

 

God did send his only begotten Son into this world to die on the cross to shed his blood and give his body as the supreme sacrifice for the remission of sins.  That is the good news of the gospel and the message of the gospel is repentance unto salvation.  Jesus told Nicodemus that except a man be born again he cannot even see the kingdom of God.  There is no access, or knowing God or being reconciled to right standing with God, or walking and talking with God in his marvelous light without "first" having the remission of our sins through the shed blood of Christ that washes white as snow.  We can't even become a babe in Christ and desire the sincere milk of the word so that we can grow thereby without first accepting the sacrifice in which God gave for the propitiation for our sins.  That's why it is the good news of the gospel because without repentance unto salvation you have absolutely nothing no standing with God remaining in your sins under his wrath.

 

   

 

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

people were afraid to approach God because they feared His judgement for their sins; yes, Jesus came to remove every reason that man might have to fear God's judgment; but even more, Jesus came to remove all reasons why man might not seek fellowship with God -  forgiveness of sins was a huge part of that, but it wasn't all He did for us.  He made us joint-heirs with Him, and He took the curse of the law for us.  from God's perspective, sins (wrong thoughts and actions) are not an issue, He honors Jesus' sacrifice for all wrong thoughts and actions - what sends people to hell is rejecting a relationship with God based solely on faith in His grace, and independent of their performance, good or bad.

 

the good news of the gospel is not remission of sins; that's true, but that's not the almost-too-good-to-be-true news of the gospel - the good news of the gospel is that you can know God, which IS life eternal, based on faith in His grace, and regardless of your own performance, good or bad.  

 

Jesus was very hard on some people; but not adulterers, or prostitutes, or thieves (or smokers) - Jesus was hard on the self-righteous - those who thought that their own holiness based in their performance could gain them favor with God; these were those whom He said were of their father the devil.  where did Jesus point out someone's wrong thoughts or actions aside from those He called hypocrites?  

 

Jesus was actually very tough on sin.  Jesus didn't just condemn the sins of the self-righteous.  He told the sinners to go and sin no more.  He didn't cut them any slack, either. 

 

when you received spiritual rebirth, did God immediately point out all your wrong thoughts and actions and expect you to turn completely from all of your 'sins' instantly and never make another mistake?  or did He start with one or two things that you needed to change, and once you understood about those things, show you another one or two more things you need to change, etc.? 

 

God commands to flee from all sin.  He doesn't pick out just one two. Light that shines in our hearts to reveal sin is a floodlight not a penlight.

 

 He does this with everyone; but many seem to think He needs help with this - that they should point out other people's 'sins' to them independent of God's leading; this was exactly what the pharisees were doing in John 8:3 that led Jesus to tell them that they were of their father the devil in John 8:44 - they were pointing out someone's sins.

 

We are called to expose sin.  Read Ephesians 5.  We are called to expose the deeds of darkness.  We are called to call sin what it is.  We are not judging others, but we are exposing what is or is not sin.

 

 

many feel competent to judge actions as sins that aren't dealt with in the scriptures; much like the pharisees judged people who didn't wash their hands before they ate:

Mar 7:5-8

(5)  Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

(6)  He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

(7)  Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

(8)  For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

 

notice Jesus' harsh response - would He be saying this to those who call smoking sin and point this out to fellow believers who smoke?

No, He wouldn't.  You can't compare a ritual tradition with a self-destructive habit that detracts from God's glory.  Your comparison is invalid.   Smoking isn't a religious tradition or ritual.  So it is not analogous to hand washing.

 

 

 

i never said that we should never point out when a believer is in sin; i said we have to be careful to be led by God to do this or it will merely bring condemnation on that believer; and this only for those wrong thoughts and actions that God has defined as 'sins' in the scriptures - if God didn't clearly point out that smoking is sin, then why do you feel that you can make this decision for Him?

 

the difference between what i am doing and what you are doing here in this thread is that i have clear scripture to stand on for what i believe...

 

That is false.  You have been provided Scripture and your consistent misuse and mishandling of Scripture has correctted and refuted many times over.

 

 

 

don't quit the thread; show scriptures for your beliefs instead - don't let offense stop you from helping the silent readers who are following this.

 

 

You have been provided Scriptures many times and you ignore them.  Asking for what has already been provided, and ignored and then returning to thread as if nothing has been provided is a dishonest tactic.

 

 

 

Ephesians 5 says absolutely nothing about smoking.  plucking verses out of context may help you justify your beliefs, and may in your mind give you the right to call me dishonest, but it does not move me at all.  you are not God; you are no authority that i need yield to - no matter how condescending and insulting you try to be.  in spite of that, i forgive you anyway.

 

You have been provided plenty of Scriptures and to deny such IS dishonest.   I have not said anything I need to be forgiven for.  I am simply expressing a level honesty about your tactics that you can't seem to face up to.

 

As for Eph. 5, I didn't say that Eph. 5 said anything about smoking.  I said that Eph 5 tells us that we are to expose the works of darkness.  That was in response to your erroneous claim that we aren't supposed to tell people about their sin.

 

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

(Eph 5:11-13)

 

[disciplehelovestoo]

 

don't quit the thread; show scriptures for your beliefs instead - don't let offense stop you from helping the silent readers who are following this.

Last time I'm doing this. I will stop posting because you ignore any verse that don't fit your opinion. But, you are right, there are some silently watching who should see the truth no matter what.

 

1 Cor. 3:16-17

Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

 

1. does smoking cause cancer? Does cancer destroy the body? What does the above verse say about what will happen to those who willfully destroy the body like smoking does?

1 Corinthians 10:31

So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

 

2. Does smoking glorify God?

Romans 12:1

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

 

 

3. If our bodies are temples and to be presented as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, Does smoking, which destroys the body accomplish this? Does smoking glorify God in our Bodies?

 

1 John 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

4. Sin is the transgression of Gods word. If smoking destroys the body it transgress God's word, and that is sin! Does Smoking Glorify God in our Bodies, Helping us present our bodies as a living Sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God? If not it is transgressing God's word and that is sin!

 

 

The bible is very specific about how we are to present ourselves and our bodies to God. Smoking violates those verses and teachings, which makes it sin! Lastly, I never said remission of sins was why Jesus came, I said Remission or forgiveness of sin was the gospel message that we are commanded to tell everyone in word and deed, and to do that you must be able to tell people what a sin is. I don't know where this thought that if you say something is a sin, then you have to be judging came from. But it is not true. I am done. I have heard your argument and now I have post verses one last time to back up mine. I will pray for you. I am done with this thread. I said it, I mean it.

 

God bless

Firestormx

Joseph

 

first, let me say THANK YOU!!! for offering scripture to support your views!!!

 

1. i've already shown that 1Cor 3:16, 17 taken in context is referring to diversity of doctrines as it relates to spiritual defilement; show me from scripture (not science, experience, opinion, or any other source) where this verse is speaking of physical defilement.

 

does smoking cause cancer?  many people who smoke do get cancer - but not all - my grandaddy smoked 2 packs of cigarettes a day ever since they started making cigarettes - over 50 years - and died of natural causes at 89, not cancer.  this is carnal thinking; science has linked the two, not scripture - the same science that once linked the sun's track across the sky to the mistaken assumption that the earth was stationary at the center of the universe.  here's something to chew on: what kills prematurely is not believing that you have divine health by the stripes of Jesus; cancer is a mechanism of unbelief, not the cause of death; many people have received their healing from cancer - it's unbelief that kills.

 

2. 1Cor 10:31  the context here is SPIRITUAL defilement - idol worship - worshiping false Gods - not physical defilement.  show me from scripture (not science, experience, opinion, or any other source) where this verse is speaking of physical defilement.

 

does driving in a car glorify God in every case?  what about using a cell phone?  are these things always used to God's glory, or is it what's in the heart of those who use them that makes these actions glorify God?

 

Romans 12:1 has a key word - "THEREFORE" - linking it to chapter 11 - the context of chapter 11 is spiritual defilement - not physical.  

 

1Cor 6:19-20 the context here is fornication - but Paul does list a number of 'sins'in verses 9 and 10 - where is smoking in the list?

 

3. you have yet to establish that there is ANYTHING in the scripture about physical habits defiling the spiritual temple of the Holy Spirit, nor that smoking is established as a transgression of the law; as the law does not mention smoking.

 

4. this is a conclusion you have reached, but there is NOTHING in the scripture (the law) about smoking!

 

why didn't you quote these scriptures in context?  is it because you know that that by doing so it will be obvious to all that they are NOT speaking of physical habits?

Edited June 26, 2014 by disciplehelovestoo