I like gays

[Fez]

 

Actually John, Scripture has a lot of value to me.   The problem  I have isn't with what the Scripture says.  My problem is with the way you twist Scripture to support the lie that you don't sin.

 

 

When you claim not to sin, you are lying and you call God a liar.   Since you are so fond of quoting I John here is what John also says, which you ignore in order to lie:

 

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

(1Jn 1:8-10)

 

According to John the truth is not in you and you are living in deception.  What's worse is that you are calling God a liar and His word is not in you.   You are sinning by claiming that you don't sin.   By your standard you are not born of God.

 

I have removed all the carried over posts to synthesize it down, otherwise we spend our day scrolling to the answers.

 

Shiloh amen! 

[Johnlove]

 

 

Actually John, Scripture has a lot of value to me.   The problem  I have isn't with what the Scripture says.  My problem is with the way you twist Scripture to support the lie that you don't sin.

 

 

When you claim not to sin, you are lying and you call God a liar.   Since you are so fond of quoting I John here is what John also says, which you ignore in order to lie:

 

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

(1Jn 1:8-10)

 

According to John the truth is not in you and you are living in deception.  What's worse is that you are calling God a liar and His word is not in you.   You are sinning by claiming that you don't sin.   By your standard you are not born of God.

 

I have removed all the carried over posts to synthesize it down, otherwise we spend our day scrolling to the answers.

 

Shiloh amen! 

 

So you take some verse out of context to show how I am twisting scripture?

 

Show me how I twisted John’s words?

 

Read the following and see just how wrong you are.  You may not see how wrong you are, but others will.

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

 

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

John later says:

 

(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ.  Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to seen Him or known Him.  My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning.  It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared.  No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

 

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.

Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.

 

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them.  There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.  Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment.  We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people.  It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” 

 

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time.  They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

[Guest shiloh357]

So you take some verse out of context to show how I am twisting scripture?

 

I haven't taken anything out of context.

 

 

Show me how I twisted John’s words?

 

Read the following and see just how wrong you are.  You may not see how wrong you are, but others will.

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

 

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

 

 

1.  You are not reading the whole passage:   "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (v. 8)  This is written to Christians in the present tense.  John covers both present and past sins.  He says if we say we have *present tense no sin, (if we say that we are sinless right now) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.   So you are wrong when you say that you have no sin, at this time.  To make the claim you have no sin means you are deceived.

 

2.  You are also misreading v. 10. It is not talking about forgiveness.  It is  talking about the purifying of the conscience. The blood of Jesus has a two-fold effect on the believer.  The sins we commit are forgiven through Jesus' blood.  His blood paid for all of our sins.   But it has a second effect.  The blood of Jesus also cleanses our conscience of unrighteousness.  Sin is not the same as unrighteousness; those are not synonymous terms.  When we confess our sins, it is not for God's benefit, but for ours.  We confess our sins because we need the blood of Jesus to cleanse our conscience of guilt and condemnation, hence cleansing from all any sense that we stand before God condemned or unrighteous.  The enemy uses our past sins to shame us to guilt us and to embarrass us.   The blood of Jesus removes all of that so that we can serve God fully without being paralyzed by guilt and condemnation.

 

3.  Being forgiven of sin, doesn't make us sinless.  All it means is that our sin are paid for, and are not being laid to our account.  The account was settled two thousand years ago and God's justice against sin has been satisfied in Jesus' work on the cross.  That doesn't mean we will never commit a sin.  It simply means that grace is made available to us when we do sin.

 

 

John later says:

 

(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ.  Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to seen Him or known Him.  My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning.  It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared.  No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

 

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.

Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.

 

You need to understand why I John was written.   The early church, by the time John was writing his epistles was already infiltrated by false teachers, most notably the Gnostics.   John was writing to expose Gnostic teachings, that among other things, denied the existence of sin.   John was not writing to say that we as Christians are to be sinless and never commit another sin.  He is writing to expose those who deny they are sinners.  This would especially apply to the gnostics who rejected the notion of sin or that they were sinners.  To the gnostics, salvation meant being saved from ignorance, not sin.

 

So you are misapplying these selected verses to something that John never intended.  John was writing to expose the teachings of the Gnostics so that beleivers in the first century would be able to readily spot false teachers in their midst.  In fact, that this mostly what all three of John's epistles are about.

 

 

 

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them.  There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.  Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment.  We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people.  It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” 

 

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time.  They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

 

I am not really sure what these two passages have to do with whether or not we are sinless.  The passage from Hebrews 10 is warning Jews who are sitting on the fence, not to return to the  OT sacrificial economy.

 

The passage of Hebrews 6 is talking about spiritual immaturity not apostasy (if you follow the context which actually begins in Hebrews 5:11.

[tigger398]

 

 

 

Actually John, Scripture has a lot of value to me.   The problem  I have isn't with what the Scripture says.  My problem is with the way you twist Scripture to support the lie that you don't sin.

 

 

When you claim not to sin, you are lying and you call God a liar.   Since you are so fond of quoting I John here is what John also says, which you ignore in order to lie:

 

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

(1Jn 1:8-10)

 

According to John the truth is not in you and you are living in deception.  What's worse is that you are calling God a liar and His word is not in you.   You are sinning by claiming that you don't sin.   By your standard you are not born of God.

 

I have removed all the carried over posts to synthesize it down, otherwise we spend our day scrolling to the answers.

 

Shiloh amen! 

 

So you take some verse out of context to show how I am twisting scripture?

 

Show me how I twisted John’s words?

 

Read the following and see just how wrong you are.  You may not see how wrong you are, but others will.

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

 

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

John later says:

 

(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ.  Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to seen Him or known Him.  My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning.  It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared.  No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

 

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.

Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.

 

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them.  There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies.  Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment.  We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people.  It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” 

 

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time.  They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

 

 

If everyone here is disagreeing with you. Could it be possible that your wrong. I wish I knew how to do these quotes seperate.

[Johnlove]

There are people on this thread who want people to believe what I post about sin is wrong.

These people don’t address the scripture that is quoted by me, but try to say I am wrong by quoting scripture that is out of context.

 

One person quoted that we have an advocate with Jesus Christ.  That is true, but Jesus is also a just judge, and will make sure a sinner will get his or her just judgment.
Also where scripture tells us we have an advocate with the Father, scripture also tell us to have that advocate one has to keep Jesus’ Commandments.  Jesus told us not to sin.  If one sins he or she have no place in Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

 

Now read one of the verses that tells us we have an advocate with the Father.

 

(1 John 2:1-6) “My children, I am writing this to prevent you from sinning; but if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the upright.
He is the sacrifice to expiate our sins, and not only ours, but also those of the whole world.
In this way we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him.
But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God.
Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.

[LadyKay]

I fond Johnlove way of thinking dangerous. Meaning that if a newly born Christian was to be told that if they sin then they were never saved in the first place, it may make them give up their walk with Christ altogether. I know that when I was a new Christian if I had believed as Johnlove is saying, I would have given up as soon as I started. All of us can lose our way at times. But God is there to take us back if we do. All we have to do is call on him. To make people feel like once they make a mistake in their Christian walk, that they were not true Christians to start with is a very dangerous thing to be telling new Christians. 

[Guest shiloh357]

There are people on this thread who want people to believe what I post about sin is wrong.

 

What you post about sin IS wrong. It is not a matter of waning to believe it.  Your position is based on a faulty handling of the Scriptures.

 

 

These people don’t address the scripture that is quoted by me, but try to say I am wrong by quoting scripture that is out of context.

 

Actually I have directly addressed EVERY Scripture you have quoted and have placed it back in its original literary and historical context and presented the original intention of the author.

 

 

One person quoted that we have an advocate with Jesus Christ.  That is true, but Jesus is also a just judge, and will make sure a sinner will get his or her just judgment.

Also where scripture tells us we have an advocate with the Father, scripture also tell us to have that advocate one has to keep Jesus’ Commandments.  Jesus told us not to sin.  If one sins he or she have no place in Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

 

If we didn't sin, we would not need Jesus as an advocate in the first place.  Jesus is our "defense attorney."  When we sin, He pleads our case before the Father.  That is one of the roles He has as our Savior.  He is our advocate and in that office He is keeping us saved.   We are expected to be obedient, but God knows we will fail at times.  That is why salvation is fool proof.  That is why we have grace and mercy from the Father who provided us with all that we need to live for Him and the saving grace that keeps us saved even when we mess up.

 

What you are advocating is a salvation that is based in your own personal merit and effort to be perfectly flawless and sinless.    Here is the flaw in your theology.  Jesus was the only person who ever lived sinless before God.    But Jesus lived sinless on two levels.   Jesus not only kept the law perfectly without a single error, Jesus also did something we can't do.   Jesus fulfilled the righteousness of the law.   Because Jesus was inherently sinful, He went beyond merely keeping the law, but fulfilling the righteousness of it. 

 

We are born with a sin nature.  That sin nature isn't eradicated when we are saved.  Paul makes that clear when he says that our flesh wars against the spirit and spirit against the flesh.  There is a spiritual war that takes place in us.  Our flesh didn't disappear the minute we got saved.  We are commanded to keep our flesh under, to walk in the Spriit so that we will not obey the lusts of the flesh.

 

Jesus didn't have a sin nature.   That makes a big difference because Jesus' obedience was not tainted by sin.  Even if you keep all of God's commandments 100%, you are still carrying around a sin nature that you inherited from Adam and that nature is there until we are resurrected and receive our new bodies.   So even if you perfectly keep God's laws, your obedience is tainted with sin and is still unacceptable before God. 

 

You can't keep God's laws good enough to satisfy God's righteous demands.  Your best efforts on your best day is nothing but filthy rags before God.

 

Salvation is based on you being perfect.  It is based solely on the finished work of Jesus on the cross and nothing else.  It is based on Jesus' perfection, not our perfection.  Jesus did everything needed to save us and keep us saved.  You are teaching a false gospel of a works-based system of righteousness and performance based acceptance and we will not receive that.

 

Now read one of the verses that tells us we have an advocate with the Father.

 

(1 John 2:1-6) “My children, I am writing this to prevent you from sinning; but if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the upright.

He is the sacrifice to expiate our sins, and not only ours, but also those of the whole world.

In this way we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him.

But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God.

Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.

 

But again, this was meant to help the believers at that time to know the difference between someone who was a true believer and the cultists who were infiltrating the church.  Gnostic cultists knew the Christian lingo.  They knew how to sound "Christian" but the fruit of their lives, whether or not they kept God's commandments, would expose them for what they truly were.   Whoever claims to know God, will live a life that is agreement with that profession.

 

So John is not teaching perfect sinlessness at all.  He is giving first century believers a way of being able to detect those who are claiming to be followers of Jesus when they are not.

[angels4u]

There are people on this thread who want people to believe what I post about sin is wrong.

These people don’t address the scripture that is quoted by me, but try to say I am wrong by quoting scripture that is out of context.

 

One person quoted that we have an advocate with Jesus Christ.  That is true, but Jesus is also a just judge, and will make sure a sinner will get his or her just judgment.

Also where scripture tells us we have an advocate with the Father, scripture also tell us to have that advocate one has to keep Jesus’ Commandments.  Jesus told us not to sin.  If one sins he or she have no place in Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

 

Now read one of the verses that tells us we have an advocate with the Father.

 

(1 John 2:1-6) “My children, I am writing this to prevent you from sinning; but if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the upright.

He is the sacrifice to expiate our sins, and not only ours, but also those of the whole world.

In this way we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him.

But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God.

Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.

May I ask you if you believe you are without sin?

[Johnlove]

 

There are people on this thread who want people to believe what I post about sin is wrong.

These people don’t address the scripture that is quoted by me, but try to say I am wrong by quoting scripture that is out of context.

 

One person quoted that we have an advocate with Jesus Christ.  That is true, but Jesus is also a just judge, and will make sure a sinner will get his or her just judgment.

Also where scripture tells us we have an advocate with the Father, scripture also tell us to have that advocate one has to keep Jesus’ Commandments.  Jesus told us not to sin.  If one sins he or she have no place in Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

 

Now read one of the verses that tells us we have an advocate with the Father.

 

(1 John 2:1-6) “My children, I am writing this to prevent you from sinning; but if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the upright.

He is the sacrifice to expiate our sins, and not only ours, but also those of the whole world.

In this way we know that wquoting e have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him.

But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God.

Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.

May I ask you if you believe you are without sin?

 

You can ask, but tell me what does that have to do with my post?  I am quoting scripture no my opinion.  If one does not believe the written Word of God, then the sure would not believe me.

[angels4u]

 

 

There are people on this thread who want people to believe what I post about sin is wrong.

These people don’t address the scripture that is quoted by me, but try to say I am wrong by quoting scripture that is out of context.

 

One person quoted that we have an advocate with Jesus Christ.  That is true, but Jesus is also a just judge, and will make sure a sinner will get his or her just judgment.

Also where scripture tells us we have an advocate with the Father, scripture also tell us to have that advocate one has to keep Jesus’ Commandments.  Jesus told us not to sin.  If one sins he or she have no place in Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

 

Now read one of the verses that tells us we have an advocate with the Father.

 

(1 John 2:1-6) “My children, I am writing this to prevent you from sinning; but if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the upright.

He is the sacrifice to expiate our sins, and not only ours, but also those of the whole world.

In this way we know that wquoting e have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him.

But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God.

Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.

May I ask you if you believe you are without sin?

 

You can ask, but tell me what does that have to do with my post?  I am quoting scripture no my opinion.  If one does not believe the written Word of God, then the sure would not believe me.

 

Can you just answer with a "Yes" or "No"?