The City of Babylon.

[Salty]

 

 

 

 

We're talkling about the temple itself, not the surrounding area. The temple would have no stone left standing - not the wailing wall. The wailing wall was not part of the temple!

This prophecy is so obvious that I don't see how you could claim otherwise.

Why would the Romans completely remove all traces of the temple? Nobody else does that. Usually there are ruins left.

Remember that the site of the temple is God's footstool. He promised that until the Tribulation nobody would ever worship false gods on that spot. Non-Jews were not even allowed in the temple. They could only enter the outer court, that's why it was called the court of the gentiles.

When Muslims conquer the places of worship of other religions, they either usurp the existing temple and convert it into a mosque (ie Constantinople) or they build their mosque smack bang on top of the spot where the old temple was just like they did with thousands of Hindu temples in India.

God wanted no man to know where the original Jewish temple stood until the Jews got Jerusalem back, so that nobody could build an idol to false gods on that very spot. Clearing it completely would ensure that the exact location of the temple would remain a secret.

 

As for accusing me of listening to other people's false doctrines - I don't know what you're talking about. I got all this information from the Bible, not from anybody else. So unless you're claiming that the Bible is false doctrine, then you're clearly mistaken about me.

 

Edit:

 

I mean the bit about the temple being destroyed is fulfilled - not all of Matthew 24. Sorry, I should have made it clear. That's what I'm referring to. I went back and read a previous post.... that's what I meant to say.

 

 

The wailing wall is part of Herods foundation modifications of the second temple complex, so yes, it is part of the old temple complex, which is one of the reasons why orthodox Jews say prayers facing it and put letters in it.

 

There will be another temple built in Jerusalem in the last days in order for the Daniel prophecies to occur, for that "abomination of desolation" event Jesus warned of in Matt.24 also, i.e., false idol worship involving a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. That temple is the one that will be destroyed when Jesus returns.

 

 

The Temple of Herod was not part of the Jewish temple. It was built where the Dome of the Rock is today.

 

 

Doesn't have to be stones of the 2nd temple, Jesus was referring to the buldings on the temple mount, all stones in that area of Jerusalem. And in case you haven't thought about it, the Dome of The Rock is standing on the temple mount today, showing the not one stone standing upon another lacks completion. When the Jews build yet another temple in our times, that also will show the prophecy is still in effect.

[Salty]

 

Yes Sadam tried to rebuild the geographical city of Babylon. But he's dead now. The U.N. along with its other deceived can rebuild all they want, but that doesn't mean it will be the epi-center of the false worship that is to take place on earth in the last days, for God Himself has reserved the city of Jerusalem for that, as that is where the coming Antichrist will set himself up as king, in a temple in Jerusalem, proclaiming himself as God, over all things that are called God, and over all things that are worshiped, just as Apostle Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, and like Rev.17 points to.

Good! There is someone here with some bible sense! Truthful post.

 

 

Thanks, it's refreshing to find another one of the few here that actually heed God's Word instead of relying on traditions of men.

[OakWood]

 

 

 

 

 

We're talkling about the temple itself, not the surrounding area. The temple would have no stone left standing - not the wailing wall. The wailing wall was not part of the temple!

This prophecy is so obvious that I don't see how you could claim otherwise.

Why would the Romans completely remove all traces of the temple? Nobody else does that. Usually there are ruins left.

Remember that the site of the temple is God's footstool. He promised that until the Tribulation nobody would ever worship false gods on that spot. Non-Jews were not even allowed in the temple. They could only enter the outer court, that's why it was called the court of the gentiles.

When Muslims conquer the places of worship of other religions, they either usurp the existing temple and convert it into a mosque (ie Constantinople) or they build their mosque smack bang on top of the spot where the old temple was just like they did with thousands of Hindu temples in India.

God wanted no man to know where the original Jewish temple stood until the Jews got Jerusalem back, so that nobody could build an idol to false gods on that very spot. Clearing it completely would ensure that the exact location of the temple would remain a secret.

 

As for accusing me of listening to other people's false doctrines - I don't know what you're talking about. I got all this information from the Bible, not from anybody else. So unless you're claiming that the Bible is false doctrine, then you're clearly mistaken about me.

 

Edit:

 

I mean the bit about the temple being destroyed is fulfilled - not all of Matthew 24. Sorry, I should have made it clear. That's what I'm referring to. I went back and read a previous post.... that's what I meant to say.

 

 

The wailing wall is part of Herods foundation modifications of the second temple complex, so yes, it is part of the old temple complex, which is one of the reasons why orthodox Jews say prayers facing it and put letters in it.

 

There will be another temple built in Jerusalem in the last days in order for the Daniel prophecies to occur, for that "abomination of desolation" event Jesus warned of in Matt.24 also, i.e., false idol worship involving a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. That temple is the one that will be destroyed when Jesus returns.

 

 

The Temple of Herod was not part of the Jewish temple. It was built where the Dome of the Rock is today.

 

 

Doesn't have to be stones of the 2nd temple, Jesus was referring to the buldings on the temple mount, all stones in that area of Jerusalem. And in case you haven't thought about it, the Dome of The Rock is standing on the temple mount today, showing the not one stone standing upon another lacks completion. When the Jews build yet another temple in our times, that also will show the prophecy is still in effect.

 

 

The Dome of the Rock wasn't there then, so you're making no sense. Jesus was talking about the Jewish  temple when he referred to no stone left standing and that prophecy did indeed come true. He wasn't talking about a mosque or the wailing wall or Herod's false temple, or anything else that might be on the Temple Mount, then, later or now.

Just because somebody built something else over five hundred years later doesn't automatically reverse the prophecy. You might as well say that the destruction of the First temple never, ever happened because years later a second temple was built.

[Salty]

 

 

 

Oh, you expected me to go into detail, again???

 

 

Actually no, I'm done playing with your theory which i found very entertaining 

 

There is however, one very critical Flaw that absolutely, categorically blows your Jerusalem nonsense out of the water, which I'm afraid you cant argue out of, so good luck.

 

Babylon or “Mystery Babylon’s” destiny is eternal, physical destruction.

 

The problem with the Jerusalem = Babylon theory is that we have the Messianic prophecies indicating, that Jesus Christ will return and rule from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. Later we will see a new heaven and a new earth created in eternity but not during the 1,000-year millennial reign of Christ but AFTER Jesus has Reigned.

 

Now if Jerusalem is "Babylon" and "Babylon" will be utterly destroyed and uninhabited by humans FOREVER then pray tell where is Jesus going to be reigning from then?

 

Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for mighty is the Lord God who judges her. ... In one hour your doom has come! … When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, 'Was there ever a city like this great city (Revelation 18:8, 10 and 18)?

 

Rev18: 21 Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore. 22 The sound of harpists, musicians, flutists, and trumpeters shall not be heard in you anymore. No craftsman of any craft shall be found in you anymore, and the sound of a millstone shall not be heard in you anymore

 

Yet, the Messianic prophecies speak of Jerusalem being the world’s capital city under the Lord’s reign of 1,000 years. Lol how can that be if "Babylon who is "Jerusalem"  wont be found any more, no citizen wont be found in her any more?

 

The Jerusalem is Babylon theory is nothing but pure babble nonsense

 

 

When one refuses to see how God uses metaphor and symbols to teach with in His Word, then His Word becomes a silly puzzle. Your way of thinking suggests that even the locusts of Rev.9 are monsters coming in the last days, because there has never been any such literal locusts with faces of men, teeth as lions, etc. If God can equate Jerusalem spiritually as Sodom and Egypt as per Rev.11:8 then He can also apply Babylon as a spiritual metaphor for Jerusalem in a false worship state. Already I was challenged that God never called Jerusalem a harlot when I showed the Ezek.16 Scripture where He did just that, called Jerusalem a harlot and adulteress even, because of falling to false worship against Him. And when Jesus returns, spiritual Babylon will be no more by His fire, and any temple standing there will be destroyed.

 

For those interested - the temple the orthodox Jews plan to build for the last days in Jerusalem will NOT... be Christ's Millennium temple. Christ's Millennial temple will be the one of Ezekiel 40 forward which He will build per Zech.6.

[Salty]

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're talkling about the temple itself, not the surrounding area. The temple would have no stone left standing - not the wailing wall. The wailing wall was not part of the temple!

This prophecy is so obvious that I don't see how you could claim otherwise.

Why would the Romans completely remove all traces of the temple? Nobody else does that. Usually there are ruins left.

Remember that the site of the temple is God's footstool. He promised that until the Tribulation nobody would ever worship false gods on that spot. Non-Jews were not even allowed in the temple. They could only enter the outer court, that's why it was called the court of the gentiles.

When Muslims conquer the places of worship of other religions, they either usurp the existing temple and convert it into a mosque (ie Constantinople) or they build their mosque smack bang on top of the spot where the old temple was just like they did with thousands of Hindu temples in India.

God wanted no man to know where the original Jewish temple stood until the Jews got Jerusalem back, so that nobody could build an idol to false gods on that very spot. Clearing it completely would ensure that the exact location of the temple would remain a secret.

 

As for accusing me of listening to other people's false doctrines - I don't know what you're talking about. I got all this information from the Bible, not from anybody else. So unless you're claiming that the Bible is false doctrine, then you're clearly mistaken about me.

 

Edit:

 

I mean the bit about the temple being destroyed is fulfilled - not all of Matthew 24. Sorry, I should have made it clear. That's what I'm referring to. I went back and read a previous post.... that's what I meant to say.

 

 

The wailing wall is part of Herods foundation modifications of the second temple complex, so yes, it is part of the old temple complex, which is one of the reasons why orthodox Jews say prayers facing it and put letters in it.

 

There will be another temple built in Jerusalem in the last days in order for the Daniel prophecies to occur, for that "abomination of desolation" event Jesus warned of in Matt.24 also, i.e., false idol worship involving a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. That temple is the one that will be destroyed when Jesus returns.

 

 

The Temple of Herod was not part of the Jewish temple. It was built where the Dome of the Rock is today.

 

 

Doesn't have to be stones of the 2nd temple, Jesus was referring to the buldings on the temple mount, all stones in that area of Jerusalem. And in case you haven't thought about it, the Dome of The Rock is standing on the temple mount today, showing the not one stone standing upon another lacks completion. When the Jews build yet another temple in our times, that also will show the prophecy is still in effect.

 

 

The Dome of the Rock wasn't there then, so you're making no sense. Jesus was talking about the Jewish  temple when he referred to no stone left standing and that prophecy did indeed come true. He wasn't talking about a mosque or the wailing wall or Herod's false temple, or anything else that might be on the Temple Mount, then, later or now.

Just because somebody built something else over five hundred years later doesn't automatically reverse the prophecy. You might as well say that the destruction of the First temple never, ever happened because years later a second temple was built.

 

 

In Luke 19 He declared how Jerusalem would be laid to even to the ground, and there also used the expression of not one stone on top of another. Yet the Romans missed that Western Wall of the temple mount complex, didn't they? When you see the new temple the Jews plan to build today, then you will know for sure the Olivet Discourse prophecies truly are for the end of this world.

[OakWood]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We're talkling about the temple itself, not the surrounding area. The temple would have no stone left standing - not the wailing wall. The wailing wall was not part of the temple!

This prophecy is so obvious that I don't see how you could claim otherwise.

Why would the Romans completely remove all traces of the temple? Nobody else does that. Usually there are ruins left.

Remember that the site of the temple is God's footstool. He promised that until the Tribulation nobody would ever worship false gods on that spot. Non-Jews were not even allowed in the temple. They could only enter the outer court, that's why it was called the court of the gentiles.

When Muslims conquer the places of worship of other religions, they either usurp the existing temple and convert it into a mosque (ie Constantinople) or they build their mosque smack bang on top of the spot where the old temple was just like they did with thousands of Hindu temples in India.

God wanted no man to know where the original Jewish temple stood until the Jews got Jerusalem back, so that nobody could build an idol to false gods on that very spot. Clearing it completely would ensure that the exact location of the temple would remain a secret.

 

As for accusing me of listening to other people's false doctrines - I don't know what you're talking about. I got all this information from the Bible, not from anybody else. So unless you're claiming that the Bible is false doctrine, then you're clearly mistaken about me.

 

Edit:

 

I mean the bit about the temple being destroyed is fulfilled - not all of Matthew 24. Sorry, I should have made it clear. That's what I'm referring to. I went back and read a previous post.... that's what I meant to say.

 

 

The wailing wall is part of Herods foundation modifications of the second temple complex, so yes, it is part of the old temple complex, which is one of the reasons why orthodox Jews say prayers facing it and put letters in it.

 

There will be another temple built in Jerusalem in the last days in order for the Daniel prophecies to occur, for that "abomination of desolation" event Jesus warned of in Matt.24 also, i.e., false idol worship involving a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. That temple is the one that will be destroyed when Jesus returns.

 

 

The Temple of Herod was not part of the Jewish temple. It was built where the Dome of the Rock is today.

 

 

Doesn't have to be stones of the 2nd temple, Jesus was referring to the buldings on the temple mount, all stones in that area of Jerusalem. And in case you haven't thought about it, the Dome of The Rock is standing on the temple mount today, showing the not one stone standing upon another lacks completion. When the Jews build yet another temple in our times, that also will show the prophecy is still in effect.

 

 

The Dome of the Rock wasn't there then, so you're making no sense. Jesus was talking about the Jewish  temple when he referred to no stone left standing and that prophecy did indeed come true. He wasn't talking about a mosque or the wailing wall or Herod's false temple, or anything else that might be on the Temple Mount, then, later or now.

Just because somebody built something else over five hundred years later doesn't automatically reverse the prophecy. You might as well say that the destruction of the First temple never, ever happened because years later a second temple was built.

 

 

In Luke 19 He declared how Jerusalem would be laid to even to the ground, and there also used the expression of not one stone on top of another. Yet the Romans missed that Western Wall of the temple mount complex, didn't they? When you see the new temple the Jews plan to build today, then you will know for sure the Olivet Discourse prophecies truly are for the end of this world.

 

 

You're using mental and verbal gymnastics to re-write scripture. First you bring in the Dome of the Rock to justify that stones are still there when the Dome of the Rock wasn't even built at the time and even if it was, such a blasphemous monstrosity would never have been called a temple building by Jesus, just as a tourist souvenir kiosk standing on the Mount today would not be a temple building either.

Then you backpedal and go on about the wailing wall which is not a temple building either. In fact it's not even on the Temple Mount but rather it runs down the side and was built by Herod the same as his temple to false gods was.

 

Here is the portion of Matthew 24 that we are talking about:

 

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. ² And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

Now when Jesus said "see ye not all these thing"s, he could probably see a lot of things from the Temple Mount, including houses down below and maybe an inn in the distance. But it's obvious that he wasn't referring to those as well was he? Using your logic he must have been.

No, he was referring to the temple buildings which is quite clear from the passage. He wasn't referring to the Dome of the Rock (it wasn't built yet). He wasn't referring to the Pyramids in Egypt (they weren't there either - they were somewhere else) and he wasn't referring to the Empire State building (which was neither there nor even built yet).

He was referring to the Temple. And if you know anything about scripture the term "the Temple" always means the Jewish Temple that stands on a specific spot. It doesn't mean any old temple - it means "The Temple."

Does this prophecy make sense? Yes it does, because it came true, just as Jesus said it would.

I can't see why you cannot grasp that.

[Salty]

 

 

You're using mental and verbal gymnastics to re-write scripture. First you bring in the Dome of the Rock to justify that stones are still there when the Dome of the Rock wasn't even built at the time and even if it was, such a blasphemous monstrosity would never have been called a temple building by Jesus, just as a tourist souvenir kiosk standing on the Mount today would not be a temple building either.

Then you backpedal and go on about the wailing wall which is not a temple building either. In fact it's not even on the Temple Mount but rather it runs down the side and was built by Herod the same as his temple to false gods was.

 

Here is the portion of Matthew 24 that we are talking about:

 

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. ² And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

Now when Jesus said "see ye not all these thing"s, he could probably see a lot of things from the Temple Mount, including houses down below and maybe an inn in the distance. But it's obvious that he wasn't referring to those as well was he? Using your logic he must have been.

No, he was referring to the temple buildings which is quite clear from the passage. He wasn't referring to the Dome of the Rock (it wasn't built yet). He wasn't referring to the Pyramids in Egypt (they weren't there either - they were somewhere else) and he wasn't referring to the Empire State building (which was neither there nor even built yet).

He was referring to the Temple. And if you know anything about scripture the term "the Temple" always means the Jewish Temple that stands on a specific spot. It doesn't mean any old temple - it means "The Temple."

Does this prophecy make sense? Yes it does, because it came true, just as Jesus said it would.

I can't see why you cannot grasp that.

 

 

I'm staying well within the parameters of the prophecy, because it's for the end of this world especially. 70 A.D. can only seen as a 'type' and not the final fulfillment of Matt.24:1-3.

 

Looking at the view that geographic Babylon is the "great city" being referenced in Revelation, how is it that ONLY a 10th part of it will fall, and divided into three parts?

 

Rev 11:13-15

13    And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14    The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15    And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

(KJV)

Rev 16:18-21

18    And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19    And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.

20    And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21    And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

(KJV)

 

If geographic Babylon is of the "cities of the nations" that are to fall there, then what is that "great city" there that is different, and is only divided into three parts?

[OakWood]

 

 

 

You're using mental and verbal gymnastics to re-write scripture. First you bring in the Dome of the Rock to justify that stones are still there when the Dome of the Rock wasn't even built at the time and even if it was, such a blasphemous monstrosity would never have been called a temple building by Jesus, just as a tourist souvenir kiosk standing on the Mount today would not be a temple building either.

Then you backpedal and go on about the wailing wall which is not a temple building either. In fact it's not even on the Temple Mount but rather it runs down the side and was built by Herod the same as his temple to false gods was.

 

Here is the portion of Matthew 24 that we are talking about:

 

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. ² And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

Now when Jesus said "see ye not all these thing"s, he could probably see a lot of things from the Temple Mount, including houses down below and maybe an inn in the distance. But it's obvious that he wasn't referring to those as well was he? Using your logic he must have been.

No, he was referring to the temple buildings which is quite clear from the passage. He wasn't referring to the Dome of the Rock (it wasn't built yet). He wasn't referring to the Pyramids in Egypt (they weren't there either - they were somewhere else) and he wasn't referring to the Empire State building (which was neither there nor even built yet).

He was referring to the Temple. And if you know anything about scripture the term "the Temple" always means the Jewish Temple that stands on a specific spot. It doesn't mean any old temple - it means "The Temple."

Does this prophecy make sense? Yes it does, because it came true, just as Jesus said it would.

I can't see why you cannot grasp that.

 

 

I'm staying well within the parameters of the prophecy, because it's for the end of this world especially. 70 A.D. can only seen as a 'type' and not the final fulfillment of Matt.24:1-3.

 

Looking at the view that geographic Babylon is the "great city" being referenced in Revelation, how is it that ONLY a 10th part of it will fall, and divided into three parts?

 

Rev 11:13-15

13    And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14    The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

15    And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.

(KJV)

Rev 16:18-21

18    And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19    And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.

20    And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21    And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

(KJV)

 

If geographic Babylon is of the "cities of the nations" that are to fall there, then what is that "great city" there that is different, and is only divided into three parts?

 

 

So you're saying that when Jesus said "See ye not all these things" he was also referring to the wailing wall?

Unless himself and the disciples were abseiling down the side at the time, I doubt if they could see the wailing wall at all.

 

And if you think that 70 AD doesn't apply then the buildings which Jesus was pointing out which were destroyed, have not actually been destroyed at all but are going to be destroyed in the future, then that doesn't make sense at all. How can something that has already been destroyed be destroyed again. I think Jesus would have said "the buildings will be destroyed, rebuilt and destroyed again" if that's what he meant.

 

That's like saying to somebody in NYC pre-2001, "you see those twin towers there, they're going to be destroyed in the year 2032" without actually telling them that they get destroyed in September 2001, get rebuilt again (identical) and the new replica towers get destroyed in 2032.

 

None of what you're saying makes any sense unless you have a preconceived notion and you twist scripture to fit that preconceived notion. I feel that you're fiddling with a fulfilled prophecy, undoing it in your mind then trying to make it happen again. Sorry, I'm not meaning to sound rude but that's the way I see it.

[Salty]

 

So you're saying that when Jesus said "See ye not all these things" he was also referring to the wailing wall?

Unless himself and the disciples were abseiling down the side at the time, I doubt if they could see the wailing wall at all.

 

Most definitely! Any stones standing on top of another in that area of the Temple Mount. Regardless of who built the Western Wall at the Temple Mount that's still standing today, and even though that wall was not de facto the temple building itself, there's still stones standing on top of another there, and that's not even to mention the Dome of The Rock, and... the future temple that will be built there for the Antichrist to sit in and play God.

 

 

And if you think that 70 AD doesn't apply then the buildings which Jesus was pointing out which were destroyed, have not actually been destroyed at all but are going to be destroyed in the future, then that doesn't make sense at all. How can something that has already been destroyed be destroyed again. I think Jesus would have said "the buildings will be destroyed, rebuilt and destroyed again" if that's what he meant.

 

70 A.D. serves only as a TYPE, because the Romans did not place any abomination idol in the temple, for it burned before they could get possession of it. So your attempt to focus on only one point about the prophecy is also tending to disregard other parameters of the prophecy that must be fulfilled with it. The huge parameter you're leaving out is the FUTURE Jewish temple that will be built there for the Antichrist. When Jesus comes to destroy that, then you will know when the prophecy has truly been fulfilled.

 

 

[Salty]

Another point to remember is Zech.6, which revealed that The LORD is Who will build the Temple (the one of Ezekiel). When we see the orthodox Jews build their temple under the Antichrist who they will truly believe is The Messiah, we know that temple will not have been built by our Lord Jesus Christ.