Osterloh Posted July 11, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 61 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/01/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) So I don't get accused of cherry picking the easiest one, I'll just go with the first, from Mat 5. First, an earlier verse, so you can see the kind of things Jesus is talking about: [Mat 5:20 KJV] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. I submit that 99.9% of christians do not have righteousness of their own that exceeds that of the pharisees, who were professional, diligent law keepers. Is this truly the way to the kingdom? -of course not. Paul explains that the purpose of the law was to show us that we are inadequate to keep the law: [Rom 3:19 KJV] Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. You make a valid point about Jesus’ sermon on the mount being before the gospel was well-known. I included it to show how serious sin is to God. And there are multitudes of verses threatening loss of eternal life to ANYONE who is involved in habitual unrepented-of sin! … Some are in the OP list. Here’s one … “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Cor 6:9-10) This applies to everyone on the planet, and I can show from Scripture that entering the kingdom of God/heaven is equivalent to go to heaven. Now, will these people come around later? … Heb 10:26+ says there is a cut-off point. So really, that's what all of the dozens of warnings are all about, i.e. OSAS is from the pits of hell. IMO, you’ve got a big problem with righteousness! Does one need to be righteous in God’s eyes to enter heaven? Check the end of Matt 25, and then verses such as: “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7) It’s the old story: is God playing games with us? … I.E. is the reverse of the above true? If the BAC is not practicing his imputed righteousness, this proves that he is no longer righteous!We are to choose to be “(slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16) “… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.” (Romans 6:19) So, everything is conditional: God's INITIAL grace, righteousness, salvation, etc. may be carelessly rejected and thrown away! Edited July 11, 2014 by Osterloh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Osterloh, how insecure you must be to believe that you can lose your salvation once you are saved. How wrong you are to believe that you can do anything to remove yourself from the firm hands of Christ, to Whom GOD has given you. Scripture says that Christ said in John 10:27-29 "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." (NIV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted July 11, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted July 11, 2014 The salvation in Christ is not temporary, it is eternal. In John 10:28-30, Jesus says: “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." The forgiveness of God through Christ is sufficient to cover all of our sins -- past, present, and future. There is nothing a person can do that God cannot forgive. This doctrine is supported by Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, and Jude 1:24, among others. Critics of the “once saved, always saved” doctrine claim that it gives Christians a license to sin. They presume that those who believe in eternal security intend to accept salvation, and then continue to willingly sin. This is inaccurate, because anyone who has been truly saved is a new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17), has the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 1 Thessalonians 4:8), and now wants to live for Christ. Someone who continues to willingly and blatantly live in sin has not truly accepted Christ (1 John 2:19; 1 John 3:6; James 1:26). While this false belief may be held by some, it is not a part of the teachings of any true Christian church (Romans 3:8). A person who willingly, humbly, repents of sin and turns towards the cross, trusting Christ as their Savior, will be saved (Acts 16:31; John 6:37; John 14:6). That salvation is once and for all, eternal, and secure. Those who truly trust in Christ are saved once, and saved always. That's the GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osterloh Posted July 11, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 61 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/01/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Osterloh, how insecure you must be to believe that you can lose your salvation once you are saved. How wrong you are to believe that you can do anything to remove yourself from the firm hands of Christ, to Whom GOD has given you. Scripture says that Christ said in John 10:27-29 "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." (NIV) I say this is ludicrous! ... Are all BACs involved in the blue? E.G. re: the knowing (approving) ... sin cuts off fellowship! I say you're going to have to explain ... WHY are there are literally dozens of warnings about SIN RESULTS IN ETERNAL DEATH? Simply tell us WHY, okay? In case you were not aware, regular sincere confession and repentance washes them all away! I began this crusade hesitatingly months ago ... after seeing all of these many warnings in Scripture. Edited July 11, 2014 by Osterloh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted July 11, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Osterloh, how insecure you must be to believe that you can lose your salvation once you are saved. How wrong you are to believe that you can do anything to remove yourself from the firm hands of Christ, to Whom GOD has given you. Scripture says that Christ said in John 10:27-29 "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand." (NIV) I say this is ludicrous! ... Are all BACs involved in the blue? Do you think it is up to you to save yourself by your good behaviour? How wonderful it must be to be your own saviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osterloh Posted July 11, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 61 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/01/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Than perhaps you should be posting in a manner that looks like a discussion and not teaching. So you are clear on this, those who are not part of the Ministry are not allowed to teach. I hope you understand what I am saying. I am presenting my views and my questions, and I am inviting people to submit their opinions for discussion. I am part of the ministry (evangelist) ... part of the 5-fold ministry (Eph 4:11). Such people are called into this by the Lord Himself. And I am NOT talking about all of those who have been men-appointed-and-called throughout the centuries. I'll refrain from explaining what the prerequisite is for being called into the 5-fold ministry. Edited July 11, 2014 by Osterloh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 11, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2014 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Cor 6:9-10) This applies to everyone on the planet, and I can show from Scripture that entering the kingdom of God/heaven is equivalent to go to heaven. Now, will these people come around later? … Heb 10:26+ says there is a cut-off point. so tell me please...... do you or anyone else really believe that a born again Christian would have a lifestyle of any of these things... Really??? then there is this:::: 1 Cor 5:1-6 5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2 And you have become arrogant, and have not mourned instead, in order that the one who had done this deed might be removed from your midst. 3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh , that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. NASB so it seems to me that things are not as cut and dry as you seem to want us to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persuaded Posted July 11, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 107 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2014 Your righteousness is worthless. Have a look at Isaiah 64:6 to see what God thinks of your righteousness. He thinks your very best, is disgusting. That's why you need His righteousness. "The righteous" or "the just" in Paul's writings are those that have received the imputed righteousness of (from) God. 21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[fn] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, Do we also have responsibility? Yes. To believe is also to obey. Obedience is evidence of belief, real belief. But believers still slip, still sin, and still have a sin nature. But His love is what constrains us, not fear of His wrath. We are His children, co-heirs with Christ, who are urged to call Him "Abba, Father". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted July 11, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2014 Than perhaps you should be posting in a manner that looks like a discussion and not teaching. So you are clear on this, those who are not part of the Ministry are not allowed to teach. I hope you understand what I am saying. I am presenting my views and my questions, and I am inviting people to submit their opinions for discussion. Are you? In another thread you said you started this as a crusade. http://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/182301-do-any-of-these-verses-threaten-the-loss-of-anyones-salvation/page-2#entry2125995 That sounds like an agenda rather than an open discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigman7 Posted July 11, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 166 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/24/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/01/1965 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Do Any Of These Verses Threaten The Loss Of Anyone's Salvation? Read 2 Timothy 2:13 and you will see that nothing threatens the loss of anyone's salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts