Is Gog/Magog War=Armageddon War

[iamlamad]

Salty wrote,

Because of your listening to Pre-trib doctors, you have totally missed what Paul was teaching there in 2 Thess.2 about that coming false one. He showed that false one will come PRIOR to Christ coming and gathering of His Church from the very first 1-4 verses of that chapter. You cannot just go further down in the chapter to modify that first section of verses to try and say he meant Jesus comes before that false one. Even 2 Thess.2:8 tells on you, because Paul showed that Christ's coming is when that false one is revealed with the "brightness of His coming." 

 

The one taken out of the way is NOT the Church, nor The Holy Spirit. It is the Archangel Michael per Dan.10 who is withholding Satan in heaven now, and then when the war in heaven of Rev.12:7 forward happens, that is when Satan will be cast down to this earth, in person, with his angels. So there, I just revealed to you who that "man of sin" and "that Wicked" truly is that's coming which will do works of deception after the working of Satan, because it will be Satan.

 

How can any one guy be wrong in so many points? This is just more nonsense, and not at all the intent of the Author.

 

Now let's read and see what it is that must come "first."

"³ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition." (GNV)

 

What is it that must come first? It is a DEPARTING. What is the theme of this passage? The gathering or rapture. When the rapture happens, does the bride "depart?" OF COURSE THE BRIDE DEPARTS.  You have been misled by poor translations.

 

So GET THIS....and from now on get it RIGHT: it is the departing that must come FIRST. Stop confusing the readers with nonsense. If you are going to be on a public forum  -  at least teach truth.

 

So THAT DAY, that is the Day of the Lord (which John shows us begins at the 6th seal and continues on through the 70th week and Paul shows us begins an instant after the rapture) CANNOT COME until the church has departed. Wow! This is the very same timing Paul shows in his first letter. He did not change his mind. They had been told the day had started and they were IN IT. Paul tells them: NO WAY. Before the Day can begin, the church MUST BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY.

 

Readers, please note that Paul never mentions any Arc Angels here. Note that Paul's very THEME is the rapture. How silly is it to come up with a theory on this passage that does not include the rapture?

 

The signal for Michael to go to war will certainly be the 7th trumpet sounding. That will be when Adam's lease has ended (6000 years of man's rule over and done with) and suddenly Satan has no legal hold to earth. (he usurped Adam's lease.) However, this midpoint event has NOTHING to do with the rapture and the timing of 2 thes. 2. Don't confuse these two. 2 Thes. 2 is about the START of the Day of the Lord. They thought they were IN the day of the Lord. Paul tells them the day cannot even start until the church is "taken out of the way." Then , when all can SEE the man of sin revealed, then people can know for sure that the Day of the Lord has begun.

 

How silly to say the "MAN of sin" will be Satan. It is a MAN. Why must you attempt to change what is written? Why not just believe what is written and say the MAN of sin is a MAN who will enter the temple and say he is GOD? Your false theories are getting farther and farther from the truth of God's word.

 

LAMAD

[Spock]

LAMAD,

I've read many of your posts and without rendering judgment yet, they have great symmetry to them and actually make a lot of sense. It does appear you can support your position with SCRIPTURE, which is important.

Now, I'm sure some will debate you on your "departure" interpretation, but I too have read many using that word, and thus inferencing the church as the ones departing.

Certainly can make sense.

Your earthquake as a result of that departure is intriguing, and I have to agree, this too can make a lot of sense.

Me personally, I still have to do more research and study, but for now, I'm open to your interpretation.

Like I said, I like the symmetry-7th seal opens week 70; 7th trumpet is midpoint; and 7th vial is end of week. God seems like an orderly God to me, so maybe this is his way.

Stay tuned. Keep writing bro, I'm listening.

Spock out

[Montana Marv]

One must look at 2 Tim 3: 1-9 as an example;  There will be terrible times in the last days.  People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money..... lovers of pleasure than lovers of God.  having a form of godliness, but denying its power.  Have nothing to do with them.... They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins,  but they are never able to acknowledge the truth....  Men of depraved minds, who, as far as faith is concerned, are rejected.  But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.  v. 13 - while evil imposters will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

 

This apostasy, rebellion is ongoing now.  For this is how Paul describes this rebellion of 2 Thes 2:3.  So we are already in this era of Rebellion or Apostasy.  Pastors appearing to give out the truth, but denying the truth themselves.  But did we not cast out demons in your name and preach in your name;  But Jesus will say "I never knew you".

 

Now we are waiting for him/someone to be taken out of the way, then the son of perdition can be revealed.

 

We are already in Stage one,  Stage two happens when he is taken out of the way, then Stage three is when the son of perdition is revealed.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Spock]

LAMAD,

2 questions if you don't mind-

Question 1:

I can see why you believe the 7th trumpet is right at the abomination because rev 12 follows the 7th trumpet and this is where satan gets kicked out of Heaven and thrown to earth.

I suppose this is where the AC gets his juice to do his thing, from now earth dwelling satan.

However, what do you make of this in rev 12-----

13When the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. 14Two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, so that she might be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15The serpent spewed water out of his mouth after the woman like a river, that he might cause her to be carried away by the stream. 16The earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river which the dragon spewed out of his mouth. 17The dragon grew angry with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep God's commandments and hold Jesus' testimony.

Verse 17 says the dragon grew angry with the woman, (which I believe is Israel Jews), and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep gods commandments and hold Jesus' testimony.

Who are they?

144,000 Jews?

Messianic Jews who came to know The Lord after the rapture?

Question 2. Read this from Joel 2:

1Blow the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble, for the day of Yahweh comes, for it is close at hand:

2A day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness. As the dawn spreading on the mountains, a great and strong people; there has never been the like, neither will there be any more after them, even to the years of many generations.

3A fire devours before them, and behind them, a flame burns. The land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them, a desolate wilderness. Yes, and no one has escaped them.

4The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses, and as horsemen, so do they run.

5Like the noise of chariots on the tops of the mountains do they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devours the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

6At their presence the peoples are in anguish. All faces have grown pale.

7They run like mighty men. They climb the wall like warriors. They each march in his line, and they don't swerve off course.

8Neither does one jostle another; they march everyone in his path, and they burst through the defenses, and don't break ranks.

9They rush on the city. They run on the wall. They climb up into the houses. They enter in at the windows like thieves.

10The earth quakes before them. The heavens tremble. The sun and the moon are darkened, and the stars withdraw their shining.

11Yahweh thunders his voice before his army; for his forces are very great; for he is strong who obeys his command; for the day of Yahweh is great and very awesome, and who can endure it?

Question: I believe you said you see this as the 6th seal, am I right? I would like to read your exegesis on this passage.

What say ye?

Thanks,

Spock

[ENOCH2010]

How are the messianic jews going to be drawn to the Lord Jesus, if the Holy Spirit is removed from earth at the so called pre-trib rapture.

[Spock]

How are the messianic jews going to be drawn to the Lord Jesus, if the Holy Spirit is removed from earth at the so called pre-trib rapture.

I never said the HS was removed. I don't think you can say the church = HS.

Nevertheless, are you forgetting the TWO WITNESSES and the 144,000 Jews for Jesus? (Not to mention one of the three angels told to go forth and bring the message of hope to the lost world?)

[ENOCH2010]

The pre-trib view is that the Holy Spirit is what is restraining the son of perdition, so the Holy Spirit has to be removed along with the church at the pre-trib rapture. The problem with that theory is all the Bibles will have to go also, because it teaches anyone that excepts Jesus as their savior, the Holy Spirit will never leave them, and the Bible says a number that no man can number will come out of the tribulation. If the Holy Spirit is removed from this earth at a pre-trib rapture, then how can this great number of people coming from the tribulation claim the promise in the Bible about the Holy spirit never leaving them.

[Marilyn C]

The Holy Spirit is Omnipresent. The world would not exist if He did not continue to uphold it. (Heb. 1: 3) It refers to the working of the Holy Spirit. -

 

1. Forming a Body to maturity in Christ, which when complete & mature will be taken to its eternal setting in glory. (Rev. 3: 21)

2. Drawing people to God. These will continue to be in their nation groups. (Rev. 7: 9)

3. Delivering Israel & atoning for the land & the people. (Deut. 32: 43)

Edited August 10, 2014 by Marilyn C

[Spock]

The pre-trib view is that the Holy Spirit is what is restraining the son of perdition, so the Holy Spirit has to be removed along with the church at the pre-trib rapture. The problem with that theory is all the Bibles will have to go also, because it teaches anyone that excepts Jesus as their savior, the Holy Spirit will never leave them, and the Bible says a number that no man can number will come out of the tribulation. If the Holy Spirit is removed from this earth at a pre-trib rapture, then how can this great number of people coming from the tribulation claim the promise in the Bible about the Holy spirit never leaving them.

I believe you are referencing rev 7 that talk about a great number coming out of tribulation.

Rev 7 follows what? Rev 6.

Rev 6 ends with the 6th seal, and then the rapture (I believe this great number coming out of tribulation is the Raptured church).

LAMAD has been preaching this message for days.

By the way Enoch, I don't believe I am pre trib. I believe the rapture follows the 6th seal. Do you think this makes me pre trib?

However, I can't be dogmatic as to the timing of the rapture in regards to Daniels 70th week.

Lately, I've been entertaining the notion that the four horsemen of Rev 6 precede the 70th week.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Spock,

 

Now why do you all think that when Christ opens the scroll with the 7 seals (Rev. 6) that then that must be the end of that & now on to the next thing?