GoldenEagle Posted July 25, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2014 Surely, there are 4 different Christian baptisms in the NT. Some say more than 4 ... but I see only 3 major ones and 1 intermediate one. I've always understood there to be one baptism. Please explain? What passages are you reffering to? For example:Eph. 4:4-5 4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osterloh Posted July 26, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 61 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/01/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2014 (edited) Surely, there are 4 different Christian baptisms in the NT. Some say more than 4 ... but I see only 3 major ones and 1 intermediate one. I've always understood there to be one baptism. Please explain? What passages are you reffering to? For example:Eph. 4:4-5 4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Yes, I've heard it explained that the above refers to one Christian water baptism. Here's a better one ... Hebrews 6: 1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Edited July 26, 2014 by Osterloh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 26, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2014 Surely, there are 4 different Christian baptisms in the NT. Some say more than 4 ... but I see only 3 major ones and 1 intermediate one. I've always understood there to be one baptism. Please explain? What passages are you reffering to? For example:Eph. 4:4-5 4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Yes, I've heard it explained that the above refers to one Christian water baptism. Here's a better one ... Hebrews 6: 1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Keep in mind who the writer is writing to, the Hebrew people. They had more than one baptisms, or cleansing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osterloh Posted July 27, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 61 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/01/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2014 Hebrews 6: 1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Keep in mind who the writer is writing to, the Hebrew people. They had more than one baptisms, or cleansing. Yes, but there ARE multiple baptisms in the NT. An example of one other than water baptism is ... “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church) … and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many.” (1 Corinthians 12:12-14). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted July 27, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2014 Hebrews 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Keep in mind who the writer is writing to, the Hebrew people. They had more than one baptisms, or cleansing. Yes, but there ARE multiple baptisms in the NT.An example of one other than water baptism is ...“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church) … and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many.” (1 Corinthians 12:12-14).How does what you state line up with what GoldenEagle provided from Ephesians 4:4-6?There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.There is an outward action for a new inner commitment, water baptism, and there is the one baptism, through the Holy Spirit into Christ.Are you aware of the many ritual baptisms, or cleansing, the Hebrew people undertook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted July 28, 2014 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 40 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2014 Hi Gigman! Baptism serves multiple purposes and most of the people on this thread have shown the scriptures for them. The first and most obvious of these purposes is to be washed in a symbolical manner to take away your sins. The next reason, which others term "outward sign of an inward change", is really where a person who has gained faith in Jesus Christ and repented of their sins enters into a covenant with God to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ and become disciples in the kingdom of God. They promise to follow Jesus, always remember Him, and keep His commandments. In return, they are promised the receipt of the Holy Spirit. I think many people want to debate whether it be a commandment or not, in other words, MUST one be baptized? We can look at a few selections and determine the answer. First, Jesus, obviously a sinless being, went to John the Baptist for His baptism. John doesn't;'t really want to baptism, knowing Jesus is holy and does not need baptism to wash away sins, but Jesus insists on doing it. Some may correctly argue that Jesus wanted to set an example for us, but there is more to it. Jesus says to John, "Suffer it to be so now; for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness." (Matt 3:15 KJV) Can we say that we can fulfill righteousness if we don't want to follow our Lord and Savior into the waters of baptism? Jesus had to do it to keep the commandment of His Father and so must we. Other posts in this thread have clearly shown that the apostles when asked what should men do to follow Jesus, they constantly demanded repentance and baptism. A couple of things on the symbolism of baptism. 1) Baptism by immersion is symbolic of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. As we repent and enter into the waters of baptism, our old sinful self is being put to death, being buried, and then brought up out of the water into a new life, a life of being a disciple of Christ. (2) The whole commandment to be accept Christ's atonement, be baptized, and receive the Holy Spirit is symbolic of being born again. As a baby is born physically of water, blood, and spirit - we too are born again. We are washed in water, cleansed by the blood of Christ, and by the Holy Spirit. Also, some think that the thief on the cross is a great reason to excuse people from following the commandment. They fail to realize that the thief nor Jesus went directly to heaven, or at least where God the Father dwells. They went to a place termed "paradise". It is easy to see how some may equate paradise with heaven, but as we look at some examples we will see that it is not. First, Jesus dies, He is gone 3 days, then He returns as a resurrected being and tells Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet gone to the Father. If He did not go to the Father, or heaven, then where was He? 1 Peter 3:19-20 talk about Christ preaching to the spirits in prison, those who had been washed away in the flood of Noah. Apparently they had been in a spiritual prison all this time. (Isaiah 24:22) We have two terms here, prison and paradise, both of which do not seem to denote heaven, or where God dwells. To say the thief enjoyed repentance and forgiveness by merely asking Jesus to go with Him is incorrect. But the thief went to this spirit realm where Jesus then taught them and offered them the way to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_fish Posted July 29, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 23 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/05/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted July 29, 2014 You do not need to be baptised to be saved - the dying thief is ample testimony to that! However, if one is saved and one has the opportunity to be baptised it is unthinkable that such a person would refuse. Clearly Jesus Christ commands baptism, and clearly he also says, John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments." to profess conversion but to refuse baptism is to say to Jesus, "I don't really love you enough to do the things that I know will please you!" Hi RB-- I do agree with your post, as well as most of the thoughts on this thread. I however have run across people whom were Baptised as infants, later in life coming to Christ. They truely struggle with the thought of being "re-baptised". It seems more of an indoctrinal thought process from their youth and teaching growing up. The young Brother in Christ whom I am currently mentouring is struggling with this as well, he feels it's wrong to be Baptised again since Scripture states "one Baptism". I think we just need to keep this in mind. Any thoughts? Thank You JF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmlusa2000 Posted July 29, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 53 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 823 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 217 Days Won: 6 Joined: 02/01/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/13/1981 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Baptism is not necessary for salvation. Requiring anything other than faith in Jesus would be a works based salvation. Adding to the gospel would be saying that Jesus' death on the cross is not sufficient for our salvation. Baptism shows that a born again Christian believes in Christ's death, burial, and ressurection. Romans 6:3-4 states, “Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.” The action of being immersed in the water illustrates dying and being buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water illustrates Christ’s resurrection. Baptism is a symbol of what has occured in the heart and life of a person who has faith in Jesus Christ. as savior. "Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ", (1 Peter 3:21). Peter tought that baptism is not a symbol of salvation, but a "pledge" of good conscience toward God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jesse Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Baptism of water is just a symbol of the real thing,which is the babptism of the holy Spirit. This ;only Jesus can do. Not everyone can be baptised with the Holy Spirit. We start with water,to enter into God's business.Then we practice; get better,and improve. Then christ will baptise with the HS. Knowledge will come a measure at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 6, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 6, 2014 You do not need to be baptised to be saved - the dying thief is ample testimony to that! However, if one is saved and one has the opportunity to be baptised it is unthinkable that such a person would refuse. Clearly Jesus Christ commands baptism, and clearly he also says, John 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments." to profess conversion but to refuse baptism is to say to Jesus, "I don't really love you enough to do the things that I know will please you!" Hi RB-- I do agree with your post, as well as most of the thoughts on this thread. I however have run across people whom were Baptised as infants, later in life coming to Christ. They truely struggle with the thought of being "re-baptised". It seems more of an indoctrinal thought process from their youth and teaching growing up. The young Brother in Christ whom I am currently mentouring is struggling with this as well, he feels it's wrong to be Baptised again since Scripture states "one Baptism". I think we just need to keep this in mind. Any thoughts? Thank You JF Hey JF, baptism should always come AFTER belief in Jesus if we were to follow Scripture. Being baptized as a child/infant is the same in my view as a dedication of a local church to teach the child the ways of God in the BIble. Just a few thoughts. Hope this helps. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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