Sister Posted September 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2014 I understand exactly how you are interpreting it. But I cannot agree with your association of the 'prince of Tyrus' as the "false prophet" of Rev.19:20. Salty You cannot see that God is addressing two? The King of Tyrus Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. This is obvious God is talking to Satan himself. The cheub/angel. It has nothing to do with the actual King of Tyrus, the man at the time, but Satan himself. So how can you say that Satan took on the image of man? God was addressing the King of Tyrus, because Satan was there at the time of the prophesy. Influencing that actual king. Satan would of known exactly who God was referring to at that time of the prophecy, himself. Prince of Tyrus Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: There is only one coming that will declare himself as god. And that is the false prophet. He is a man, not a cherub. Satan would of understood perfectly who God was referring to, "his man" because it's been in Satan's plan for a long time. This is a prophecy. In fact, God is speaking to three separate persons. They have different titles. 1. Ezekiel 27:2 Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus; (the actual king ruling then) 2. Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, (the false prophet to come) 3. Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, (Satan) The reason God has addressed the false prophet as the "Prince of Tyrus", is because he will be in charge of the world trade in the last days, just like it was back then, and he will have all the treasures, wealth and power, just like it was in Tyre. and this "prince" the FP has a "king" overseeing him, who will do it again, but on a bigger scale. And that King is Satan. I'll address your other comments later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted September 2, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2014 Well, if you've noticed I haven't gotten involved in these discussions covering these things on three threads largely because of all the different ideas and the confusion from people talking about things in different contexts and never coming to any real conclusions. Other One I have noticed that too. We can only discuss for so long, giving our reasons, which should be scripture as proof or rebuttal, ....solid facts and not opinions, then after that, if no progress, I guess we have to agree to disagree. Add to that I can't really post the things I know here for they are not all out of the Bible but from the Dark side itself. Interesting to know what they believe, but Satan is the Father of Lies dont forget. His information is twisted, but I don't know what you are referring to so I can't comment. I would tell you one thing though, Satan will never lower himself to be restricted to a human body.... ..He's doing a great job using man! Why would he change anything? Second thing I would add is that Satan wants you to worship yourself. He wants you to be your own God more than he wants him to be. Same as in the garden...... he didn't ask Adam and Eve to bow to him, but to become gods themselves I agree. "Do what thou wilt" is his slogan, I think written by Alistair Crowley. In my research it seems to me that the beast from the abyss is a chief prince fallen angel who is released from the Pit, could be the Prince of Persia or Prince of Israel.... I don't know their names right off hand, however if I had to pick an entity it would be Azazel from the pit. I disagree here, but we've bee through this already, so I wont go on,...unless you want to? You won't find most of these things in the Bible, but you would have to go directly to the source to get them and I would not have you to do that, and i don't think Jesus would either. Are you referring to the book of Enoch? I do wish you all could find a way to systematically put all the different pieces out on a table and then place each piece in some kind of order across all the prophets writings so that everything is there where we would know what has happened and what is to happen, and do it in a way that it all fits together and nothing is left out. How big do you want our posts to be lol? By the time that the Antichrist (or whatever you want to call him) comes out and proclaims himself as God, everything will have changed for they will all have been kicked out of heaven and all the upper dimensions and they will all be here on planet earth. I don't understand what you are saying?, as Satan and his angels were kicked out of heaven at Jesus' resurrection. please let's discuss this, and we can put in point form, and lay it all out on the table! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 2, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,246 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,974 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2014 Other One I have noticed that too. We can only discuss for so long, giving our reasons, which should be scripture as proof or rebuttal, ....solid facts and not opinions, then after that, if no progress, I guess we have to agree to disagree. Interesting to know what they believe, but Satan is the Father of Lies dont forget. His information is twisted, but I don't know what you are referring to so I can't comment. ..He's doing a great job using man! Why would he change anything? I agree. "Do what thou wilt" is his slogan, I think written by Alistair Crowley. .Are you referring to the book of Enoch? How big do you want our posts to be lol? as Satan and his angels were kicked out of heaven at Jesus' resurrection. please let's discuss this, and we can put in point form, and lay it all out on the table! Satan is the father of lies, but if you approach a demon and ask it a question under the name of Jesus, they would be terrified to lie to you..... No I am not actually referring to Enoch in this post (though I really have to give Enoch credibility due to the early Church fathers), but in this post and the last, it comes from close personal interaction and from people I know and trust who actually work/worked for them. Probably the best way to put it was that I wanted to understand how he worked so I went out looking for him........ and unfortunately for me God decided to allow me to find him/them... not to worship or join, but to study. Bad move on my part, but it give me some insight. They are very busy getting ready for Christs Return, but unless they changed their minds in the past 15 to 20 years they are not ready to claim defeat. Someone/something filled with that much pride often suffers from self deception. Anyway, Satan is the dragon in the Book of Revelation and I don't remember anywhere that the dragon turns into a beast. Beast uses the power of the Dragon and Speaks like a Dragon...... but I don't see the dragon becoming a beast. it's really beneath him. Satan was removed from his duties sometimes before Adam and Eve, but he still had access to the third heaven during Job's lifetime. i don't see where he was kicked out of heaven altogether until the times of the two beasts. I see that as the start of the last 7 years. A lot of things started to finalize in 1948 when the last generation started, and very soon they will be removed from the second and third heavens, and woe to us when it happens. We won't have to tell each other about it. As for the size of the posts, they should be very small..... To start the thread have people lay out their thoughts.... then instead of talking about ten things in a post, do it one step at a time. When you have three or four people discussing something with five or six points in it and some agree with some points and not others, but none of the people agree on any set of points, the thread gets so Chaotic that people reading along can't possibly keep up.... And if two people just can't come to an agreement then stop and go on to something else. Just some thoughts from an old facilitator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 3, 2014 I understand exactly how you are interpreting it. But I cannot agree with your association of the 'prince of Tyrus' as the "false prophet" of Rev.19:20. Salty You cannot see that God is addressing two? The King of Tyrus Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. This is obvious God is talking to Satan himself. The cheub/angel. It has nothing to do with the actual King of Tyrus, the man at the time, but Satan himself. So how can you say that Satan took on the image of man? God was addressing the King of Tyrus, because Satan was there at the time of the prophesy. Influencing that actual king. Satan would of known exactly who God was referring to at that time of the prophecy, himself. Prince of Tyrus Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: There is only one coming that will declare himself as god. And that is the false prophet. He is a man, not a cherub. Satan would of understood perfectly who God was referring to, "his man" because it's been in Satan's plan for a long time. This is a prophecy. In fact, God is speaking to three separate persons. They have different titles. 1. Ezekiel 27:2 Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus; (the actual king ruling then) 2. Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, (the false prophet to come) 3. Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, (Satan) The reason God has addressed the false prophet as the "Prince of Tyrus", is because he will be in charge of the world trade in the last days, just like it was back then, and he will have all the treasures, wealth and power, just like it was in Tyre. and this "prince" the FP has a "king" overseeing him, who will do it again, but on a bigger scale. And that King is Satan. I'll address your other comments later. Wait a minute. You haven't addressed those things I covered in my previous post, like this... Isaiah 14 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms"; Why do you expect me to continue the conversation with you when you skip over matters like that above Isaiah 14 Scripture where God refers to Lucifer (Satan) as a 'man' with, "Is this the man..."? I well know God is directly speaking about Satan with the king of Tyrus example, and you won't find anywhere that I denied that. But He is pointing to Satan with the prince of Tyrus example too, even though that prince was a historical flesh man, for God did the very same thing with the title of the Assyrian, put for the historical king of Assyria... Ezek.31 3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs. 8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. God gave a similar parable in Ezek.31 about Satan, using that title "the Assyrian". From Ezek.31:3 to 31:8 and thereafter He is speaking that parable. The historical flesh king(s) of Assyria never were in the "garden of God", which is the same type of metaphorical association with the "king of Tyrus" in Ezek.28. At the end of Isaiah 30 God did the same thing again, using that title of "the Assyrian" as an antitype for Satan, because He told us there that Tophet was prepared of old for the king (Satan), which Tophet is put as a symbol for the "lake of fire" (Tophet was a perpetual burning garbage pit outside the walls of Jerusalem. Is associated with the 'valley of Hinnom'. Jesus used the valley of Hinnom as a symbolic name for 'hell' in certain verses in The Gospel, and it's put for the "lake of fire" event of Rev.20). How is it then, you cannot understand the idea of analogy, allegory, and metaphor that our Heavenly Father uses in those kind of Scriptures, even using titles of historical flesh kings to point directly to Satan himself? I can't help if you still want to refuse to believe that Satan is the one coming to this earth to sit in the temple in Jerusalem, and proclaim himself as God, like these Scriptures also reveal... Rev.17 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Rev.12 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. You might check out Paul's warning in 2 Cor.11 again also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defending the Name Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 167 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/01/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 3, 2014 The beast who comes from the sea, is the cradle of civilisation, which us ancient Babylon, that is the head of Gold. The sea represents peoples of many nations, all living in that same region. The second beast is lamb like, so he is pretending to be a christian religious system, but practices the same thing as the first religious system that was the symbol of Babylon, the second beast becomes the mystery Babylon system that encompasses the whole world because he comes out from the new colonised lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 3, 2014 Wait a minute. You haven't addressed those things I covered in my previous post, like this... Isaiah 14 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms"; Why do you expect me to continue the conversation with you when you skip over matters like that above Isaiah 14 Scripture where God refers to Lucifer (Satan) as a 'man' with, "Is this the man..."? Salty I could say the same for you? I have tried to address mostly all you have stated, but everysingle word, is not necessary, because your answer is avoiding my direct questions to you. As much as you are trying to convince me that Satan is referred to as a man, I have to disagree. The scripture above we have to discern, is the "people" saying this, people who did not even know or believe that Satan exists....had no idea. It's their statement, not Gods. A christian with knowledge knows he was more than a man, he was an angel. A high ranking angel, which used his wisdom and god given abilities for wickedness. When Satan is revealed and shamed to the world just before his judgement, he will be standing there stripped off his powers. What you will see is an angel having all this authority, and powers taken off him will be reduced to nothing, and will be judged to stand before god just like a man. Without his powers, he will be as helpless as a man. But we know he is not a man. He was never born. We are not those who are in darkness, but God has revealed to us what and who he really is. I showed you God addressing three different titles, 1. Tyre 2. Prince of Tyrus 3. King of Tyrus. To you, the last two seem to be the same person, but I can see the difference and have explained that. It is obvious we are not going to agree, so if you think it is pointless discussing this with me, then lets just leave it, because our personal debate is getting annoying for others to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,246 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,974 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 3, 2014 when you get to the point of saying in your heart that you know the other person is just stupid, but you love them way too much to say it...... You just say "Lets agree to disagree" then you don't have to break up friendships..... even if they are just in the making stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,226 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,514 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Hi other one, I so agree with your thoughts on discussing topics, but not every one is able to do that we see. I`ve been busy elsewhere but may come back & post a thread in the future. Now just a thought regarding Satan being cast out of the third heaven. I see you point about him coming before God re: Job, however that is not in the third heaven but coming before God`s authority, where ever. We come before God in prayer but are not in the third heaven. God can bring anyone, anywhere to account with out them having to `physically,` be in front of His throne, if you know what I mean. Ez. 28: 16 `...you sinned; therefore I have cast you as profane from the mountain of God.` Satan is the `prince of the power of the air,` which is the `principalities & powers realm of the universe where he has usurped authority. He will be thrown down from that area also in the middle of the tribulation. He is cast to the earth which limits his power. Different realms, different authorities. Then finally we know he will be bound, then cast into the Lake of fire. Always a downward trend with lessoning of power. However wherever he is he is accountable to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,246 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,974 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 I think I'm a little more literal in my thinking about the Job thing.... I think we take the Word a little different in that manor in many different things besides this one; but that's ok. Don't mind me, most of my input is just to express why I agrued with myself when I believed what others are saying... It's like, "hey I used to think that too until I read about this." Like I said, it's too complicated to span all the things and sort out what has happened and what hasn't and what might be...... cause it's written veiled enough that we can only decide what "might be" I don't think the mountain of God is even the whole third heaven..... but that's a whole other book. I wish we lived close enough together to have coffee once or twice a week to discuss these things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,226 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,514 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Hi other one, I`d sure like that cuppa with you & we`d have many a long chat. Now a couple of things. You think that the Bible is `veiled enough that we can only decide what `might be.` I personally believe the Lord when He said - `when the Spirit of Truth comes, He will guide you into ALL THE TRUTH.` (John 16: 13) Now we, you & I bro have lived through enough years to have seen the Charismatic move, the Prophetic move etc with such restored truths as `the Holy Spirit, the giftings of the Holy Spirit, healings, deliverance, the Ministries of the ascended Lord, etc & thus I continue to look to the Lord`s Holy Spirit to complete the job - bringing us as the Body to full understanding of Christ & His Purposes. Now why do you think there is so many opinions, speculations, etc etc on these two topics, prophecy & eschatology. It is because this truth of God`s eternal purposes has not come across the Body. Over the next few years I believe there will come more clarity of God`s word & a distinct separation of those who believe their destiny is earth & those who believe their destiny is heaven. I know I come over sometimes like `I know it all.` And I don`t mean to. perhaps the teacher in me. (I was a school teacher) But I believe I was taught by very good teachers - many who came from Scotland & England in the `50s & `60`s. Thus it is not `my revelation of God`s word,` but what I have been taught even from those who came out of the Welsh Revival or were mentored by them. They had a depth we know not of today. PS. That third heaven / mountain view, sounds like a good topic, other one. Edited September 4, 2014 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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