Salty Posted August 30, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2014 My words in Green Salty he name "BABYLON" is given within... that 5th verse as a SYMBOLIC title. It's not teaching a geography lesson. So then according to you I must also Ignore the geographic locations when it mentions the sixth Angel poured his vessel over the great river Euphrates? No, not at all. Understanding how the Euphrates river is being used... in Rev.9 & 16 is the matter. It is being used symbolically as a 'border' division between God's people and Satan's host. Rev.9 14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. 15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. Who is actually being "loosed" there? Those "four angels". And they do what? Mind you, that is the start of the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period, a period which continues all the way to the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe in later Rev.11:14, which is what kind of timing? Not literal war, but the tribulation timing. That "prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year" is an expression for a specific time period, the great tribulation which is not the time of the battle of Armageddon which will occur at the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe period. Let's see, the woman sits a queen, says she's not a widow, meaning... she is MARRIED! to a KING! what king? that's some conjecture that you been trying to link up 8:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. This is describing 3 sins she is guilty of. (1) "She has glorified herself" meaning she was proud. (2) "She lived Deliciously" meaning she pursued self gratification, and (3) "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow" meaning she was not only proud but boastful. Now where do we see this EXACT VERSE? Isaiah 47 verses 7-8: "And thou saidst, I shall be a lady for ever: [so] that thou didst not lay these [things] to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it." "Therefore hear now this, [thou that art] given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I [am], and none else beside me; I shall not sit [as] a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children." And those OT descriptions definitely apply to that "great city" of Rev.17, called a "woman" there! And of course those are being given as symbols, but very important symbols, otherwise our Heavenly Father and His Son would not have used them, including a repeat in Christ's Revelation, with a bit more clarification. Remember Ezekiel 16 where God married Jerusalem? and its original history as a pagan city of the Jebusites called Jebus? Do you not recall His symbolic use of the word 'harlot' in that city application there? Can you not see how our Heavenly Father contrasts the idea of pagan worship vs. true worship of Him by using that kind of symbology? Jerusalem today is in a type of cut off state without Christ's Presence there. His Marriage to Jerusalem per Rev.21 has yet to take place today. The Antichrist is yet to appear today, but will come to Jerusalem prior to our Lord Jesus' return to sit in the temple and proclaim himself as God in Christ's stead, so can you not understand why the "woman" in Rev.18 says at that time she is "no widow"? The use of this symbology certainly is not my conjecture, The LORD is Who used those symbols to represent the coming false marriage of the "great city" to the Antichrist prior to His Son's return to fulfill the True Marriage of Rev.21. Now "What city in God's Word speaks of being married???" in Isaiah 47? Can you also answer my questions 1. I'm still yet to hear on what grounds we should dismiss the "parental" type of concept? 2. Now does this woman ride the beast event appear at the exact same time the Antichrist event of the very moment he sets up his "abomination of desolation" happen simultaneously? 3. Does the woman riding the beast come first and then the Antichrist? 1. I never have dismissed any such "parental" type of concept that I recall. God uses metaphors of Jerusalem being a woman with children, I've never denied that symbology. If you go through Isaiah 54 again, you should discover the woman forsaken and barren ideas applying both... to God's faithful and to Jerusalem. As a matter of fact, God uses the metaphor of "widowhood" there to represent this present world timing. When you get to Isaiah 54:11 it should be very clear that He is talking about Jerusalem also in that, "I will lay thy stones with fair colours...", etc. 2. I believe it will be in effect when the pseudo-Christ comes to Jerusalem and sets himself up as God, working the great signs, wonders, and miracles to make the whole world believe he is God, as per Rev.13 and 2 Thess.2, the "strong delusion" timing Apostle Paul taught. 3. The symbolic woman riding upon the beast is given in association with the Rev.13:1-2 first beast of ten horns, ten crowns, and seven heads, which is about a kingdom beast, so when do you... think the time for that will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted August 31, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2014 Salty No, not at all. Understanding how the Euphrates river is being used... in Rev.9 & 16 is the matter. It is being used symbolically as a 'border' division between God's people and Satan's host. Rev.9 14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. 15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. Who is actually being "loosed" there? Those "four angels". And they do what? Your asking the wrong questions here, where were the 4 angels bound? In the great river Euphrates....This is not symbolic for another river like the Amazon or the Nile but the river Euphraties....yet you accept this as a geographic location but not Babylon? And those OT descriptions definitely apply to that "great city" of Rev.17, called a "woman" there Then can you explain to me why did Jeremiah go to the trouble of instructing Seraiah to make such a pronouncement at the specific geographical location of literal Babylon if the fulfillment is to be found somewhere else? Jeremiah clearly needed a gps for his friend, he sent Seraiah in the wrong direction. also why would Isaiah give prophecy against Babylon if the fulfillment is to be found somewhere else? Isaiah then is facing the wrong direction Why do you ignore History? Babylon decline over time, why do you ignore this historical fact? Remember Ezekiel 16 where God married Jerusalem? and its original history as a pagan city of the Jebusites called Jebus? Do you not recall His symbolic use of the word 'harlot' in that city application there? Yes but I dont recall God calling jerusalem the mother of harlots in that city application there? The use of this symbology certainly is not my conjecture, The LORD is Who used those symbols to represent the coming false marriage of the "great city" to the Antichrist prior to His Son's return to fulfill the True Marriage of Rev.21. No you think the Lord is using those symbols, do you understand the gravity of what you just said? Coming false marriage? Let me explain something to you, how absurd your theory is Deuteronomy 24:1-4 “When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and she departs out of his house, and if she goes and becomes another man's wife, and the latter man hates her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter man dies, who took her to be his wife, then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled, for that is an abomination before the Lord. 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband) 1. I never have dismissed any such "parental" type of concept that I recall. God uses metaphors of Jerusalem being a woman with children, I've never denied that symbology. Yeh you are your not accepting literal babylon as the Mother of all whores, you are replacing her with Jerusalem who is not the originator of false worship 2. I believe it will be in effect when the pseudo-Christ comes to Jerusalem and sets himself up as God, working the great signs, wonders, and miracles to make the whole world believe he is God, as per Rev.13 and 2 Thess.2, the "strong delusion" timing Apostle Paul taught. Well no it cant be in effect simultaneously becuase you are dragging up passages of Jerusalems harlotry so she must of always been the mother of hoarltry? 3. The symbolic woman riding upon the beast is given in association with the Rev.13:1-2 first beast of ten horns, ten crowns, and seven heads, which is about a kingdom beast, so when do you... think the time for that will be? Thats not what I asked Sorry you have a problem with those kind of harlotry symbols God uses for Jerusalem in a fallen state away from Him. I didn't make up those symbolic associations, our Heavenly Father did in His Word. Based on your reasoning about these events in Jerusalem revealed from the symbology in His Word for the end of this world, I must assume you think God is going to make today's Jerusalem into something else other than what His Word shows. When another temple is built there in the last days, and the false one of 2 Thess.2:4 comes to sit in it, and animal sacrifices and Old Covenant worship there is re-instituted, that working will be an abomination to our Heavenly Father. This is why on the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe a third part of the city will fall in the "great earthquake" at Christ's second coming there on the Day of The Lord. This is why He told His servants in that area to get out at that time, because those will be the "days of vengeance" (Luke 21; Isa.61). 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Salty Posted August 31, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2014 Salty I don't have issues with God using symbols, it's your concept I'm having issues with. Your entire concept the antichrist and evidence you put forward on the false marriage violates scriptures Deuteronomy 24:1-4 “When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and she departs out of his house, and if she goes and becomes another man's wife, and the latter man hates her and writes her a certificate of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter man dies, who took her to be his wife, then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled, for that is an abomination before the Lord. If your concept is true, God could never remarry Israel then, the death of Jesus to redeem her becomes null and void Not a false concept at all, because that specifically is what the Isaiah 54 parable of the barren woman is about. That is also where Apostle Paul got this concept too... 2 Cor.11 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one Husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Isaiah 54 1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord. 2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes; 3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. 4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. 5 For thy Maker is thine Husband; the Lord of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called. Our Lord Jesus referred to that concept applied to children in Jerusalem also... Luke 23 27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him. 28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. 29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck' 30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us'." Look closely at that Isaiah 54 parable again and keep in mind how our Lord Jesus and Paul referred to it... Isaiah 54 1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord. How can the desolate (barren) woman have more children than the "married wife"?? Doesn't make sense if we view this as just a flesh concept about marriage and having children. But in the spiritual sense, it makes perfect sense, and that's how it is to be understood. The barren woman that is blessed represents remaining "a chaste virgin" presented to our espoused Husband Christ Jesus at His coming. The opposite is to be found unchaste having instead played the harlot, found already a 'married wife' to another when He comes, and in the "travail with child" state, all in the spiritual worship sense. Per our Lord's reference to this in Luke 23, to the "Daughters of Jerusalem", this concept should be quite easy to understand for the last days. It's about falling away from our True Husband to worship another, and thus found as that "married wife" when He comes. The worship of another per the NT is to the coming Antichrist/pseudo-Christ prior to Jesus' coming. This is why Jesus also remarked those in Jerusalem that do that will want the mountains and hills to fall on them because of falling away to spiritually marry another (see this also with the 6th Seal of Rev.6). 2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes; 3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. Because of the NT references I covered above, we know this parable is for God's people. But here we discover it is also... about Jerusalem/Judea itself. That symbolic tent is to be enlarged to include the believing Gentiles; it's about the holy lands after Christ's return. This is how the faithful 'barren' woman will have more children than the "married wife" who did not remain chaste, but fell away to marry another. So there it is, this chaste vs. harlot concept also applied to Jerusalem. Thus the harlot of Rev.18 says she is "no widow", meaning she is married already, when she is not supposed to be. I'm sure you can find OT Scripture with how God viewed one espoused to be married, and then breaks it through harlotry. 4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more. There's the "widowhood" reference about Jerusalem I was talking about. Personally, I don't see how anyone could miss these symbolic associations to Jerusalem involving the woman harlot of Revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted August 31, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2014 If your concept is true, God could never remarry Israel then, the death of Jesus to redeem her becomes null and void Very valid point. Jer.3 1 They say ,If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to Me, saith the LORD. If He gave the house of Israel a bill of divorce, how then could He say that return to Him? In that chapter Judah saw what backsliding Israel did, but Judah went and played the harlot also, and He said backsliding Israel thus justified herself more than "treacherous Judah" (Jer.3:11). Jer.3 12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, "Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the Lord; and I will not cause Mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever. 13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed My voice, saith the Lord. 14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: 15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. 16 And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more, "The ark of the covenant of the Lord": neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. 17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart. 18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers. God said He gave backsliding Israel a bill of divorce there (Jer.3:8), yet He says He is merciful and is 'married' to Israel, for them to return to Him. Because He is a Merciful God, we cannot compare our own limited sense of compassion and forgiveness with His. He is The GOD, we are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 1, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 1, 2014 Salty I really don’t think you thought this through properly and personnaly I don’t know how any one could miss this Deuteronomy 24:1-4 When she has departed from his house, and goes and becomes another man’s wife, if the latter husband detests her and writes her a certificate of divorce, puts it in her hand, and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies who took her as his wife, then her former husband who divorced her must not take her back to be his wife after she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance Let me repeat this because you clearly missed this must not take her back to be his wife must not take her back to be his wife must not take her back to be his wife must not take her back to be his wife you shall not bring sin on the land you shall not bring sin on the land you shall not bring sin on the land you shall not bring sin on the land found already a 'married wife' to another when He comes, and in the "travail with child" state, all in the spiritual worship sense. God cannot take Israel back if she is to be found already a “married wife” to another when he comes. God specifically states MUST NOT TAKE HER BACK!!! PERIOD> To come up with this excuse is biblically astonuishing....I am actually GOP SMACKED Because He is a Merciful God, we cannot compare our own limited sense of compassion and forgiveness with His. He is The GOD, we are not. Yes God is VERY merciful BUT God is also very RIGHTEOUS. The words of God is the only thing we have to hold God accountable for RIGHTEOUSNESS, if God goes back on his words must not take her back to be his wife, and takes his wife back after she remarried another God breaks his own law making God UNRIGHTEOUS and UNTRUSTWORTHY TO EVEN UP HOLD HIS OWN LAWS. Thus the harlot of Rev.18 says she is "no widow", meaning she is married already, when she is not supposed to be. I'm sure you can find OT Scripture with how God viewed one espoused to be married, and then breaks it through harlotry. Sure take your pick A or B A) God breaks his own law: must not take her back to be his wife B) Israel is stoned to death - Deuteronomy 22:13-21 13 If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,”………… 2 Cor.11 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one Husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. …………………..20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. There's the "widowhood" reference about Jerusalem I was talking about. Personally, I don't see how anyone could miss these symbolic associations to Jerusalem involving the woman harlot of Revelation. Again I don’t see how anyone can miss must not take her back to be his wife The House Of Israel Jeremiah 3:8 adds, "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorcement; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also." The modern Nation of Israel today is in fact the state of Judah, the House of Israel has not returned yet. The House of Israel is the only House who God divorced…therefore Deuteronomy 24:1-4 applies nicely to her being divorced. God can remarry The House of Israel as she is not remarried again AND MOST IMPORTANTLY through Kinsman REDEMPTION LEVITICUS 25:48 – 49 After he is sold he may be redeemed again. One of his BROTHERS (HOUSE OF JUDAH) may redeem him (ISRAEL); or his uncle or his uncle's son may redeem him; or anyone who is NEAR OF KIN (HOUSE OF JUDAH) to him in his family may redeem him (HOUSE OF ISRAEL) or if he is able he may redeem himself Jesus was chosen by GOD to give his life for the HOUSE of Israel THROUGH the HOUSE of Judah. Jesus death allowed God to again marry His bride HOUSE of Israel! In order for God to remarry Israel, Jesus had to become the perfect sacrifice for Israel's sins for his brother HOUSE OF ISRAEL. HOUSE OF JUDAH REDEEMED HOUSE OF ISRAEL. IF House of Israel remarries another, Jesus Death is in VAIN!!!! Period. This Excuse, is so Biblically retarded it makes me sick Because He is a Merciful God, we cannot compare our own limited sense of compassion and forgiveness with His. He is The GOD, we are not. It contradicts the very actions of why God sent Jesus….if God is simply merciful and dishes out forgiveness then why send Jesus in the first place to suffer one of the most horrific deaths in order to forgive sin? What was the point then? HOUSE OF JUDAH God never divorced the House of Judah if anything, God simply issued a SEPERATION 1Corinthians 7:10-11 “...A wife is not to DEPART from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried OR BE RECONCILED TO HER HUSBAND. And a husband is not to divorce his wife” If the House of Judah marries the Antichrist while still being married to God in her SEPERATED state God will be forced to issue her a DIVORCE Certificate!!!! Then God has to send ANOTHER JESUS TYPE this time coming out of the HOUSE of ISRAEL and then be SACRIFICED and then according to LEVITICUS 25:48 – 49 be redeemed by Kinsman redemption in order for God to again marry His bride this time around the HOUSE of Judah???? You really expect me to believe Jesus and Paul taught such a concept? Your theory is so flawed its frightening and actually sickening The marriage Laws of God completely assassinates your theory History of Babylons decline completely assassinates your theory The bible never makes mention of Babylon being Jerusalem assassinates your theory The bible never calls Jerusalem the Mother of ALL Whores assassinates your theory The fact Revelations uses Literal Geographic Locations like the great river Euphrates assassinates your theory. Just in case it was missed ------> must not take her back to be his wife Yes God issued a bill of divorce to the House of Israel. And the following is His supplication for the House of Israel to return to Him, even saying that He is married to them... Jer.3 12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, "Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the Lord; and I will not cause Mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever. 13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed My voice, saith the Lord. 14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: And yes, through the Blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ our Heavenly Father did this, and not Judah. There is NO Salvation through Judah. Jesus Christ is GOD The Son, was GOD, and has always been GOD, even BEFORE Judah was born! Those born of Judah MUST ALSO believe on The Saviour Jesus Christ by Faith to be saved (Rom.11). I do not appreciate vain associations to Judah having saved anyone of the House of Israel just because Jesus' flesh body was born of the tribe of Judah, when our Heavenly Father through His Son Jesus Christ does the saving. And note especially in that Jer.3:12-14 Scripture, God is speaking to "backsliding Israel", not to Judah, and not to Gentiles among Christ's Body. That means He spoke that in relation to what "backsliding Israel" did... against Him that caused Him to issue them the bill of divorce. Yet He said there, "for I am married to you"! In other words, how can God later say that about the house of Israel, "for I am married to you", while also having given them a bill of divorce within that same Jer.3 chapter??? (It's related to the 'blindness' Paul spoke of in Rom.11). You kind of answered your own question, because The Father did this through His Son Jesus Christ, The Bridegroom, Who fulfilled the law. And when most of the house of Judah falls away to worship the coming false messiah, thinking he will be The True Messiah, they won't need another Saviour born from the house of Israel to save them, for Jesus Christ The Messiah is able, especially since The Father blinded those Himself, so His Salvation could also go to the Gentiles (Rom.11). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted September 2, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Hi inchrist, Just popped in on your conversation here. Makes me think - Have you not read the book of Hosea? Chapter 3 is very poignant. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjp34652 Posted September 2, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 448 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 156 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/19/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2014 Firstly, please don't misunderstand me; I don't hate Americans nor do I wish to cause offense, I just want to know. Also, I specify this present age because of the spiritual reality that these are territorial spirits: prince of Persia, daughter of Babylon, etc. What think ye dear brethren? The citizens of every great empire have thought they were exceptional. America is no 'exception'. To fully understand the American self-image is to understand that Americans view themselves as God's gift to the world - DESPITE our crimes against humanity, law and those less fortunate. Case in point is the American Christian idea that the USA is intimately woven into the fabric of the Kingdom of God. Anybody who says otherwise is thought to be a heretic. "In the United States many churches display the American flag. The Christian flag is usually put on one side and the American flag on the other. Does having two flags in your church mean that Christianity and the American establishment are equal? If it does, you are really in trouble. - Francis Schaeffer The fact is that that ISRAEL, not America (nor even spiritual Israel - UK & USA), is mentioned in the pages of Holy Scripture. Only Americans add that political interpretation. On the other hand, so did the Germans of 1930 National Socialism, the French under Napoleon, and the Russians under the Czar (even Mr. Putin is making hay on that one these days - Russia is more 'moral' than America he says). Israel is the point and focus of all Biblical eschatology - both Christian, Jewish and Muslim. None of the three major world religions or any of the minor ones for that matter, consider the conceited Americans in their forecasts. America sits like a irritant in the eye of the one who wishes to 'see' a proper view of scripture. Babylon is not America - although America may provide the inspiration for it.....we are quite good at promoting all sorts of perversions. and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted September 3, 2014 Hi inchrist, I agree totally that God, through Jesus will again connect, `remarry,` Israel the `forsaken wife.` Satan can never, ever be able to do such a thing. And concerning the topic, America & Babylon - Babylon is the Religious aspect `riding on` the final Gentile Government, so obviously it is not America which is a Political entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 3, 2014 My response in green. Salty And yes, through the Blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ our Heavenly Father did this, and not Judah. There is NO Salvation through Judah. Jesus Said the follow: we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. Now why would Jesus say this? infact why was Judah the only one left in the holy land? in fact way was Jesus born out of the tribe of Judah in the first place, why not out the house of Israel? Surely you're not serious with that kind of question. That phrase is about God's Salvation first given through His chosen Israel. I know we both agree on that point, that He chose the children of Israel to be caretakers of The Gospel, to be a nation of priests. At that time in history at Christ's 1st coming, the Jews were the only Israelites still existing in the land, so who else was He going to point to when speaking to the Samaritan woman, the scattered ten tribes that were already removed out those lands? You're trying to bring 'flesh' into Christ's Salvation by saying those things, including the following... After all Jesus said the following: "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL" Why did Jesus say that? Why was Jesus ONLY sent for the House of Israel? Because its all based on the Kinsman Principle...The only way the House of Israel could be redeemed was by her sister the house of Judah, Salvation came from the house of Judah, she is the only one legally allowed to redeem her brother ( House of Israel) based on Gods laws found in LEVITICUS 25:48 – 49 ! This is why Jesus was born a Jew, He had to come out of the House of Judah. That was the only LEGAL road God could take! To legally redeem the HOUSE of ISRAEL You might want to re-read Genesis about God's Salvation Promise by Faith first given through Abraham in conjunction with what Apostle Paul taught in Galatians 3. The Salvation Promise was always by Faith, and given 430 years before Moses. Christ Jesus is The Kinsman Redeemer, and there is no other. You kind of answered your own question, because The Father did this through His Son Jesus Christ, The Bridegroom, Who fulfilled the law. Yes BUT if Judah Marries another while in a SEPERATION IN MARRIAGE, God will be forced to divorce the HOUSE OF JUDAH? How then Does Jesus FULFILL LEVITICUS 25:48 – 49 Legally? He can't further she is now remarried to another and God is forced to never take her back Why are you doing this lawyer stuff when you know our Heavenly Father was speaking metaphorically with those ideas of divorce and marriage involving the house of Israel? Where did God go to court and issue a literal bill of divorce to the house of Israel? Do you have a copy of that document? Yet I showed you the Scripture in Jer.3 where God told them to return. What our Heavenly Fathers says annuls your lawyer reasoning and application of it. The majority of Jews today are blinded by God per Paul in Romans 11, so how would God hold them responsible for falling away to the coming false messiah since He Himself blinded them in that ignorance? You would do well to study The New Testament about these things instead of trying to completely rely on lawyer principles applied to what God will do and what He won't do. And when most of the house of Judah falls away to worship the coming false messiah Again this persistence is astonishing - These are your words below Thus the harlot of Rev.18 says she is "no widow", meaning she is married already, when she is not supposed to be. You place God in a position that he has no choice but forced to divorce the House of Judah....GOD CAN NOT TAKE HER BACK BASED ON THE MARRIAGE LAW OF Deuteronomy 24:1-4,nore would GOD tolerate in being in a POLYGAMIST MARRIAGE DURING THAT TIME no amount of blood shedding by Jesus can save her from this consequences as it violates Gods Laws of Marriage - God can forgive her but it does not absolve her from her consequences....Jesus wasnt sent to absolve us from our consequences....SIN has Consequences period. How many times did the children of Israel, INCLUDING JUDAH, fall away from Him to do false worship? Many. Yet only to the house of Israel (ten tribes) did He say He gave a bill of divorce to, but even while He said He is married to them, so how could He can say that in the Jer.3 chapter? THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED TO ADDRESS INSTEAD OF TRYING TO DO CHARACTER ASSASSINATIONS AGAINST ME. I'm truly baffled as you can imagin where are you having difficulty with this phrase: must not take her back to be his wife Where in between must not take her back to be his wife are you not understanding? I'm not trying to be funny here but its obvious your not understanding this phrase must not take her back to be his wife If you study Isaiah 54 closely, you'll discover that Jerusalem is being referred to with that "widowhood" idea. Thus, God is saying that Jerusalem today is like widow in "widowhood" (Isaiah 54:4). But in Rev.18 the harlot says she is no widow, and it's because she is married at that time, but to the wrong one. That should reveal to you how our Heavenly Father sees the fallen state of Jerusalem when the false messiah is setup there. The "great earthquake" of Rev.11 is going to destroy the things involving that coming false worship in Jerusalem, so those things of falseness He is not going to marry at His coming. What did Jesus say when looking at the temple mount? Not one stone on top of another? The 70 A.D. events didn't complete that. It will be completed on the Day of The Lord at Christ's coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defending the Name Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 167 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/01/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 No America is no Babylon, because Babylon was declared as fallen in the first century. It is a religious system and not a state per say. It is a religious system that existed way back from the old covenant times and received its head wound in 70 AD by the destruction of the temple. Today the continuation of that religious practice is being headed by the global mystery Babylon religious system that is lamb like, meaning christian in appearance. America is not an advocate to the first beast, but serves the purpose of the global mystery Babylon religious system that has taken over the world by countless wars, this global mystery Babylon religious system is the second beast that continued where the first beast left of from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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