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*Zion*

Isaiah 47: is America this present age's Babylon?

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Firstly, please don't misunderstand me; I don't hate Americans nor do I wish to cause offense, I just want to know.  Also, I specify this present age because of the spiritual reality that these are territorial spirits: prince of Persia, daughter of Babylon, etc.

 

What think ye dear brethren?

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Wont say america is babylon. Cant say its not either. Several times The Lord has taken me to scripture passages talking about babylon, and other evil empires, and the words jumped out at me. I think if the shoe fits, wear it. What I believe is God is calling america back to Him. I have been seeing evidence of this every since 9/11. Over a decade ago God took me to the book of Hosea and He was really bringing to life the scripture in me but I didnt understand why. Things had not yet happened for me to understand. I think a big clue can be found in 1:2 of hosea. Also this is why I chose hosea 6:6 for my signature. This is possibly my favorite scripture in the whole bible because God is literaly saying I want you to know me, I want us to be close and I dont want any superficial fakeness. And people wont turn to him even when you tell them the truth. Honestly, I see america in a lot of the scriptures. If He does judge this nation I will not be surprised.

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I understand, but I must make it clear that I'm not talking about physical people, but the territorial spirit.  There are Christians everywhere, but we are no longer of this world, but are heavenly ambassadors :)

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I don't see the USA in Isaiah 47.  The only place I do see the USA is the great eagle of Rev 12.  As usual the bible uses a country's own symbolism, and yet even the role of the eagle in Rev 12 of protecting Israel is consistent with the current role of the USA.  Most of the other kingdoms which have animal symbols in the bible have a negative connotation of "worldly" or "anti-Israel" empires... this great eagle is seen as the protector of Israel  which is a good thing. I don't support Zionism, but I do completely support the chosen race, Jews, being protected until Jesus comes.

 

I personally believe the USA population will come to realize its might is being used as a tool on behalf of European and Middle Eastern interests... and will begin to look inward and leave the realm of international warfare. We will have to see if this comes about.

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I see the western Christian nations as lost Israel, which links America and Europe together. Most Jews don't like the idea, but some Jews understand it per Bible prophecy.

 

Satan and his workers on earth have long had the plan to take over all nations for their world kingdom with their king setup at Jerusalem. The early Church fathers of the 1st and 2nd centuries saw this for the end per God's Word, and many brethren in Christ Jesus today see it coming too. Our Heavenly Father is allowing it to happen. The majority will not really understand just why until it's over with our Lord Jesus' return.

 

I call it a test upon God's people to see who we will follow, and a test upon the wicked to see if they will continue in their wickedness. So in essence, it's to serve as a dividing line between the children of God and the children of darkness. Because it's of that kind of world scope, the traditional western Christian nation's political, financial, educational, and religious structures must be subdued, as likewise with all nations. The U.N. globalist structure serves in that exact function. The structure of their controls and international law upon the individual will continue to get tighter and tighter, until like Hitler's Germany, or Stalin's Russia, they have the power as a police state to arrest any dissadent that disagrees with their plans.

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Firstly, please don't misunderstand me; I don't hate Americans nor do I wish to cause offense, I just want to know.  Also, I specify this present age because of the spiritual reality that these are territorial spirits: prince of Persia, daughter of Babylon, etc.

 

What think ye dear brethren?

there are things that might make us look like Babylon, but there are things that we don't fit into the description too.

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I don't support Zionism, but I do completely support the chosen race, Jews, being protected until Jesus comes.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Today's Zionism

 

Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;

 

But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

 

Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.

 

For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes. Jeremiah 16:14-17

 

And The Great

 

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Luke 21:20

 

Zionist 

 

The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. Joel 3:16

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Hi there. No, Babylon is not America. It might be possible to see what Babylon is by simply reading Revelation 18. Revelation 18 calls Babylon the great city. This is the title given to Jerusalem in Rev 21, and to Sodom and Egypt in Rev 11, and to Ninevah elsewhere, among others. In fact the Bible talks about cities over and over again, and it is simply a parable way of looking at the same group of persons, those persons associated with God himself - they are the city. In fact, Jericho, was the city of palms, meaning of the righteous. Jericho means 'moon' which is a picture of the law of God, the Bible, the lesser light which is a reflection of Christ's light. Jerich had God's law. Yet Jericho's walls (which represent salvation) fell when Joshua (who represents Jesus) and the true believers marched around it. We learn that Babylon's walls fall during the hour of tribulation (which is not a literal hour but a time period). It is the period when God's holy spirit is withdrawn from the congregations and there is not any salvation left there. That is the very reason that Revelation 18 says that the voice of the bridgegroom (that's Jesus') will not be heard there again. It is the very reason that God says in Rev 18 to "come out of her my people". My people means the true believers. The true believers are told to spiritually come out of the fallen or false city.  It is not talking about political nations, like, say, present day America or present day Israel. It is saying that true believers are commanded to come out of the fallen congregations which do not have the holy spirit any longer. In fact, we find that just Lot came out of the city of Sodom before God overthrew the city, another picture of the same event. Noah, in like manner, was delivered in his covenant ark as the flood of destruction took over the not true believers. The religious who perish in Bablylon are pictured by the Pharisees in Jesus' day. They are the wicked generation which never disappears until all these things are accomplished. Fortunately, the true believers, who have been habitually rejected as they bring the truth to congregations, are delivered by God and continue to be saved. It is not a physical political event. It is talking about salvation vs. not. 

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Hi there. No, Babylon is not America. It might be possible to see what Babylon is by simply reading Revelation 18. Revelation 18 calls Babylon the great city. This is the title given to Jerusalem in Rev 21, and to Sodom and Egypt in Rev 11, and to Ninevah elsewhere, among others. In fact the Bible talks about cities over and over again, and it is simply a parable way of looking at the same group of persons, those persons associated with God himself - they are the city. In fact, Jericho, was the city of palms, meaning of the righteous. Jericho means 'moon' which is a picture of the law of God, the Bible, the lesser light which is a reflection of Christ's light. Jerich had God's law. Yet Jericho's walls (which represent salvation) fell when Joshua (who represents Jesus) and the true believers marched around it. We learn that Babylon's walls fall during the hour of tribulation (which is not a literal hour but a time period). It is the period when God's holy spirit is withdrawn from the congregations and there is not any salvation left there. That is the very reason that Revelation 18 says that the voice of the bridgegroom (that's Jesus') will not be heard there again. It is the very reason that God says in Rev 18 to "come out of her my people". My people means the true believers. The true believers are told to spiritually come out of the fallen or false city.  It is not talking about political nations, like, say, present day America or present day Israel. It is saying that true believers are commanded to come out of the fallen congregations which do not have the holy spirit any longer. In fact, we find that just Lot came out of the city of Sodom before God overthrew the city, another picture of the same event. Noah, in like manner, was delivered in his covenant ark as the flood of destruction took over the not true believers. The religious who perish in Bablylon are pictured by the Pharisees in Jesus' day. They are the wicked generation which never disappears until all these things are accomplished. Fortunately, the true believers, who have been habitually rejected as they bring the truth to congregations, are delivered by God and continue to be saved. It is not a physical political event. It is talking about salvation vs. not. 

 

Glad someone else here besides me understands how God is using Babylon the harlot as a symbolic reference to Jerusalem for the end when the "abomination of desolation" idol is placed there by the coming Antichrist.

 

But you'll find many here that just... don't... like... that kind of association, and are trying to do everything they can to persuade brethren away from the harlotry coming in Jerusalem for the end. Some even want us to believe that today's Israel state is... Christ's Salvation today, when the majority there still reject Jesus of Nazareth as God's Promised Saviour! I refuse to fall away to that ignorance, regardless of where this forum is administered from.

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Hi. Thanks Salty. Yes, the Bible is written in parable fashion providing pictures of how things happen (Psalm 78:2), but the events are not the kind of politcal events or physical wars and so forth that people imagine. Jerusalem is no different. The Bible's Jerusalem is not pointing to a political entity like the physical city in the present-day nation of Israel. In fact, Biblical Jerusalem is a picture of the Jerusalem above and the Jerusalem below (Galatians 4). The Jerusalem above is simply the whole group of saved persons who have ever existed and will exist (they are free from their sin penalty thanks to Christ). The Jerusalem below is rather those persons who are religious but don't have Christ (who expect the law to save them by their own righteousness). They are still in bondage to their sins and are not set free from their sin, because they have never truly received what Christ did for them. When congregations are looked at by God towards the end of the church age, if you will, he finds that they are filled with doctrines and tendencies of men, built by men, if you will (Genesis 18:20-21). Yet God builds his own people as he wills. The abomination that causes desolation is simply men's ways and ideas and men's authority entering into congregations such that the congregations are desolate of Christ. In other words, Christ is not present. The congregations become desolate. That is why Rev. 18 says that Christ's voice is no longer heard there. The people no longer have the Holy Spirit and so cannot hear Christ's voice. There is no physical image or statue involved. They idea of an image has to do with this. Christ's true believers are being made into his image by God himself. Any other group of persons is a false image of Christ, not meaning a physical statue or anything like that. Just not made in the image of Christ, which is perhaps what you may be saying as well.

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