GoldenEagle Posted August 11, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.80 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Perhaps something good to revisit are the various Covenants in the Bible. Particularly related to this discussion are the 3 primary covenants: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geoff Primanti Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) A friend we'll call Adam wrote the following to me... God's chosen people has always been the Church, though primarily composed of the geo-political body of Israel for a time, but now expanded to include the elect from all tribes and tongues. The current day nation of Israel is no more God's chosen people than America or any other nation is. I pray for the peace of Jerusalem, as well, and for the repentance of the nation of Israel, who as a whole rejects the Messiah and has been cut off, and who are idolaters and cannot rightly be considered God's people in any sense. The promises were made to the true seed of Abraham, Christ and those who are in Him. Please read Galatians 3. First, how do you view Israel (Jews)? Second, how would you respond to this friend? God bless, GE Israel is God's chosen people and all who are the descendants of Jacob by blood will be saved following the times of the Gentiles (once the last of the Gentiles have been saved) through faith in the true Messiah, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. There is something to Replacement Theology only in the sense that Gentiles can be partakers of promises (even some of them that have been specifically given to Israel) given by the Lord through the Prophets if they obtain them by faith. (2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Hebrews 11:33). For example, a Gentile might take a hold of the promise that "As your day is, so shall your strength be." even if he is not of the tribe of Asher; and likewise if the faith is there, someone from even a different tribe than Asher could take hold of the same promise. However the prophecies given about Israel are primarily to Israel. The Bible teaches prophetically about what happened in 1948 for us (I only say "us" as including myself because I have a sneaking suspicion that I was switched at birth and even if I wasn't, I consider myself to be a Jew inwardly as defined by Romans 2:25-29) in a verse or verses in the ending chapters of Isaiah. People who are not physically Israel can be graffed into Israel (those governed by God) which is the root of the olive tree in Romans 11:16-36 (IMHO). When Jesus appeared on the scene those Jews who rejected Him as Messiah were cut off from true Israel as Moses said that whoever doesn't listen to that Prophet would be cut off (who was not only a Prophet but the Son of God). And Gentiles who were from a wild olive tree were graffed into the good olive tree; likewise when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled all of Israel (the descendants of Jacob) will be graffed into their own olive tree quite readily in replacement of those Gentiles who fell away (Romans 11:17-23). What I'm saying is not absolutely perfect according to the letter so I encourage further study in Romans chapter 11. Edited August 11, 2014 by Geoff Primanti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,222 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,505 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hi Shiloh357, I agree with a lot you say & -`None of the Old Testament saints are in the church` / Body of Christ. My questions to you are - 1. What happens to these Old Testament saints? 2. Why do you believe that Israel will not exist into eternity? If you have time, I`m interested in how you reached those conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hi Shiloh357, I agree with a lot you say & -`None of the Old Testament saints are in the church` / Body of Christ. My questions to you are - 1. What happens to these Old Testament saints? They are saved and they will live for eternity with Jesus, but they are not part of the Church. 2. Why do you believe that Israel will not exist into eternity? If you have time, I`m interested in how you reached those conclusions Israel's blessings belong to this earth and this age and all will be fulfilled during the Millennium. Once this earth is destroyed and a new earth and new heavens are created, there will be no Israel or national boundaries. It will be not like the world we have today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geoff Primanti Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) Old Testament saints were a part of the church by implication of a verse hidden in Acts chapter 7. Edited August 12, 2014 by Geoff Primanti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,222 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,505 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Thanks Shiloh, So where do you see each one - the Body of Christ, the Old Testament saints in eternity? And then why did God make Israel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Old Testament saints were a part of the church by implication of a verse hidden in Acts chapter 7. The word used in Greek is ekklessia. Israel was God's congregation in the wilderness. But they were not the Church. The Church began in Acts 2. The Church did not begin in the OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Thanks Shiloh, So where do you see each one - the Body of Christ, the Old Testament saints in eternity? And then why did God make Israel? They are together in eternity. In fact in eternity there are three categories of saints: The OT Saints, The Church, and those those are saved during the Tribulation. Israel's purpose was, in part, to be an arm by which God would reach the world unto himself. That purpose will be finally realized during the Millennium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted August 12, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,222 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,505 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hi Shiloh, So where do you see those groups in eternity - Old Testament saints, Body of Christ & those saved through the trib? Also in regards to Israel, what about - `And your (King David) house & your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever.` (2 Sam. 7: 16) Also this scripture in regards to the nations - `And the nations shall walk by its light, (New Jerusalem) & the kings of the earth shall bring their glory into it.` (Rev. 21: 24) How does that fit in when you said there will be no `national boundaries?` Had you thought on those implications? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Hi Shiloh, So where do you see those groups in eternity - Old Testament saints, Body of Christ & those saved through the trib? I see them in the new heavens and new earth Also in regards to Israel, what about - `And your (King David) house & your kingdom shall endure before Me forever; your throne shall be established forever.` (2 Sam. 7: 16) Again, that belongs to this present world. Not every use of "forever" means "for all eternity." David's Kingdom only applies to the earth and the Millennium. Also this scripture in regards to the nations - `And the nations shall walk by its light, (New Jerusalem) & the kings of the earth shall bring their glory into it.` (Rev. 21: 24) How does that fit in when you said there will be no `national boundaries?` Had you thought on those implications? The word for nations is ethnos and means people. John is not talking about preserving national identities. There will no “nations” as we know them today. People form every tongue tribe and nation, both Jews and Gentiles will be united as God’s people. Every believer will be fully equal in the eternal capital city. In that context, "kings of the earth" are not political figures as we know them today but refer to the equality of believers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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