gigman7 Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 166 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/24/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/01/1965 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes. The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like. It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God. If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty. This is SO wrong in so many ways. prove it The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildstar Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 218 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes. The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like. It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God. If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty. This is SO wrong in so many ways. prove it The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor? You completely missed my post. Most preachers are out for money though, which makes this argument moot. Some preachers are even atheists. And the point being is the verses people use for instance for 10% are misused and twisted. Edited August 3, 2014 by Wildstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigman7 Posted August 3, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 166 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/24/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/01/1965 Author Share Posted August 3, 2014 To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes. The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like. It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God. If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty. This is SO wrong in so many ways. prove it The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor? You completely missed my post. Most preachers are out for money though, which makes this argument moot. Some preachers are even atheists. And the point being is the verses people use for instance for 10% are misused and twisted. No, I didn't miss your point. How can you say that "most" preachers are out for money? This is absurd. Yes, I agree that some are, and maybe even most on tv are. I have been to several churches in my lifetime and have found that most do not even talk about money hardly at all if any. Even though the Bible talks more about money than about anything, including salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 I know we are go give our tithes, give to the poor, the widows and orphans, and to give freely, but what exactly does the scripture say? I would tend to agree with Littlelambseativy. Tithing was a command given to Israel in the OT. Feel free to look these passages up in context but here are some thoughts... Numbers 18:21-24 shows that the tithe was given by the Lord to the Levite tribe of Israel. It was a tax if you will for the nation of Israel to support the Temple (precursor was the tent) and the workers of the Temple. In Lev. 27:30-32 the Jews were told to give a tithe to the Lord according to Levitical law. In Deut. 14:22-23 the tithe was given as instruction to Israel (Jews) based on what the land yielded (their earnings). Particularly the wine, grain, oil, and flocks. In 2 Chron. 31:5-6 the people of Israel gave in abundance of the first fruits of grain, wine, oil, honey, the produce of the field, and their flocks.The OT Law required multiple tithes 1) one for the Levites paid yearly, 2) another one for the use of the temple and the feasts paid yearly, and 3) one for the poor of the land to be paid every 3 years (as well as orphans, widows, and foreigners see Deut. 14:28-29). This would result on average to a 23.3 percent tithe of seed and flocks from one’s annual produce from the land. So if we wanted to follow OT tithing as Believers we would need to follow this set of rules and it would only apply to land owners. Do you see brother? Or perhaps I'd ask for clarification as to what you mean when you say "I know we are to give our tithes..."? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Tithing is not commanded to the church in the NT. 10% is a good benchmark but the standard for giving in the NT is in accordance with what one feels led to give and that it be given cheerfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtisCWilson Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 116 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 44 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/07/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/21/1952 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Money = time = life spent on getting it. Money = life, no wonder people don't want to give it up. Of course, laying down one's life and praying for the lost, or witnessing to others, or just living a Godly life in front of those in darkness is giving, and not just 10% but 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildstar Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 218 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes. The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like. It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God. If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty. This is SO wrong in so many ways. prove it The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor? You completely missed my post. Most preachers are out for money though, which makes this argument moot. Some preachers are even atheists. And the point being is the verses people use for instance for 10% are misused and twisted. No, I didn't miss your point. How can you say that "most" preachers are out for money? This is absurd. Yes, I agree that some are, and maybe even most on tv are. I have been to several churches in my lifetime and have found that most do not even talk about money hardly at all if any. Even though the Bible talks more about money than about anything, including salvation. How is it absurd? Just do a google search. Or look at the vatican. People use God to make money. I dont go to church anymore. I find it soulless and contrary to my faith anyways. So to each their own. Also Goldeneagle provided some scripture as a counter argument to your tithing thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 A. To be fair the verses used to support tithing were aimed at Israel and the priests who did not work for money but for God and relied on these tithes from the other tribes. B. The verse now is used to support a building, sort of like a club membership, and the owner usually spends it on vehicles and the like. It's evil, scripture twisting and has nothing to do with the will of God. If you want to use your money for good then give directly to the poor, the homeless, feed the hungry and give water to the thirsty. This is SO wrong in so many ways. Actually Wildstar is both correct and incorrect in the assesment above. A. It is true above that the tithe was given as a command to Israel to support the Temple, Levites (priests), and to help the poor (along with widows, orphans, and foreigners who lived in Israel see above. B. This is not completely true above. Particularly among Evangelical or Protestant churches.Yes we are told to give to the poor, feed the hungry, and give water to the thirsty. (See Matt. 25:35-40 for example) But that is certainly not all we as Believers are told in Scripture. Perhaps it is true that one person "owns" the church property for certain denominations and even cult-like televangelists types. But in many if not most cases (think Baptists, Bible churches, Non-denominational churches) churches are self-governed and the church property is managed by a board of trustees and/or elders/deacons. This is to facilitate accountability and to help avoid one person from believing he or she owns the church property (or the people who really make up the Church). There is Scriptural support that it is the will of God to support teachers of the Gospel finanically. At least that is how I see it. Perhaps not fancy cars, multiple houses, private jets, ets. That is one extreme where teachers of the Gospel abuse their position IMO. Yet how do you view the following passages for example? (Feel free to look them up in context) 1 Timothy 5:17-18 17 Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel. Galatians 6:6 6 Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 The church needs money to function. The preacher needs at least a good living wage. There are ministries to support. Do you think the church can exist if all of its members only give their money to the poor? You completely missed my post. Most preachers are out for money though, which makes this argument moot. Some preachers are even atheists. And the point being is the verses people use for instance for 10% are misused and twisted. @ Gigman7 I agree the local church needs money to function. Not just for the wages of preachers or ministers but to pay the light bills, water bills, provide opportunities for benevolence (giving to the needy), paying for musical instruments, paying for audio/video equipment, etc. @Wildstar How many preachers do you know? Curious. You use the term "most" which would imply that over 50% would be simply out for the money. What evidence/research do you have to support this claim that most preachers are out for the money or that some preachers are even atheists? Curious if this is an opinion and what it is founded on. While the tithe or 10% is misused or twisted it is not the command given to the Believer. We Believers are called to be generous givers and good stewards of what God has given us. God gives resources to us as Believers 1) provide for ourselves and our families, 2) support the work of God's Kingdom, and 3) give rersources to those who are in need. I'm going to start a seperate thread on Stewardship: God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2014 Tithing is not commanded to the church in the NT. 10% is a good benchmark but the standard for giving in the NT is in accordance with what one feels led to give and that it be given cheerfully. I agree with you brother for the most part care to back your statements with Scripture? That is what the OP was asking. 10% is a good goal. However, a Believer could start giving 1% or even just $5 to begin the habit of generous giving would you agree? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts