GoldenEagle Posted August 27, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2014 I'll review the links and revert back. Ok, it appears the focus of the scriptures is the amount 10% (tithe) and that it's old testament thereby meant for the JEWS. If you take the position that everything in the old testament is not applicable to the gentiles, it's reasonable to conclude tithing is not required. I find the scriptures below revealing: 1 Corinthians 9:14 14 Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel. Galatians 6:6 6 Let him that is taught in the Word share with him that teacheth, in all good things. Matthew 5:17 17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. My interpretation of the last scripture is that the 10% in the old testament was just a starting point. With Jesus we are to go above and beyond. Enoc I have thought about this thread for a few days and prayed about my attitude. Have you had some time to look back at the passages provided? So here it goes... I believe there are specific commands in the OT that were given to Israel. This includes a lot of the Levitical/ceremonial law. Tithing is one of those commands given specifically to Israel. Where we agree. I do believe that we are to support those who preach the Gospel. Again, I think you are arguing against something that very few (other than maybe Wildstar) are trying to argue in favor of. The Scriptures clearly indicate that we are to support or spiritual leaders. (Matt 10:10; Luke 10:7; 1 Cor 9:14) Where we agree. That Jesus wanted us to go above and beyond the spirit of the law of tithing. God wanted us not to consider 10% His, but instead to consider 100% of what we "own" His. The idea of being a steward of what physical wealth we accumulate instead of an owner. Where we disagree. I just think imposing a 10% on everyone is either legalistic/controlling or more a cop out and discourages giving as the Holy Spirit leads people. There's a reason that only 20-25% of church members "tithe" in many congregations. "Tithing" or giving 10% accross the board is a lot easier to teach that stewardship. If I were to sum up my views on this subject it would be here: Why I don't Believe Christians Should Tithe - Part 3. Part 1 and 2 are good too. Don't let the title scare you. Lol. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoc Posted August 27, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 153 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 27, 2014 Enoc I have thought about this thread for a few days and prayed about my attitude. Have you had some time to look back at the passages provided? So here it goes... I believe there are specific commands in the OT that were given to Israel. This includes a lot of the Levitical/ceremonial law. Tithing is one of those commands given specifically to Israel. Where we agree. I do believe that we are to support those who preach the Gospel. Again, I think you are arguing against something that very few (other than maybe Wildstar) are trying to argue in favor of. The Scriptures clearly indicate that we are to support or spiritual leaders. (Matt 10:10; Luke 10:7; 1 Cor 9:14) Where we agree. That Jesus wanted us to go above and beyond the spirit of the law of tithing. God wanted us not to consider 10% His, but instead to consider 100% of what we "own" His. The idea of being a steward of what physical wealth we accumulate instead of an owner. Where we disagree. I just think imposing a 10% on everyone is either legalistic/controlling or more a cop out and discourages giving as the Holy Spirit leads people. There's a reason that only 20-25% of church members "tithe" in many congregations. "Tithing" or giving 10% across the board is a lot easier to teach that stewardship. If I were to sum up my views on this subject it would be here: Why I don't Believe Christians Should Tithe - Part 3. Part 1 and 2 are good too. Don't let the title scare you. Lol. God bless, GE Yes, I did go back and reviewed the text, before responding above. A few points: You make the statement "you just think" which is fine. You make the statement "prayed about my attitude". Why did you pray about it? Are you not settled? I've come to understand that a disciple can only walk in the revelation they've received or possess. Regarding the tithe, I see it being given to the Jews, due to their hardness of heart. It's a good endeavor to know what parts of the old testament are overturned by the new testament and which ones are not, but expanded. Shalom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 28, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yes, I did go back and reviewed the text, before responding above. A few points: You make the statement "you just think" which is fine. You make the statement "prayed about my attitude". Why did you pray about it? Are you not settled? I've come to understand that a disciple can only walk in the revelation they've received or possess. Regarding the tithe, I see it being given to the Jews, due to their hardness of heart. It's a good endeavor to know what parts of the old testament are overturned by the new testament and which ones are not, but expanded. Shalom I'm not sure what you mean by "you just think". I don't know where I presumed to know what you think? I looked back through the thread and didn't see where I said that or made such a statement? Re: I prayed about my attitude. I prayed about my attitude because I was getting frustrated. I grew up being taught (wheather implicitly or explicitly) in so many words that a tithe was a mandate for Christians. The idea was that if you didn't tithe you didn't love God. Or that if you didn't tithe you somehow were a failure as a Christian. Then I remembered that just two or three years ago I would've defended the concept of a modern tithe being a mandate for all Believers. I do agree that we can only walk in the revelation that we have received. I needed to remember that we're all God's work in progress. We're all running the race towards Christ. And God loves us each where we are in our walk of faith in Him. Do you believe the concept of the tithe is expanded or overturned in the NT? You said the following: I don't consider tithing a command, it's based on my personal relationship with GOD. It's a covenant we have, which I honor. What do you mean by this in bold above? How is this a covenant we have? Please clarify so I understand where you're coming from. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 28, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2014 Also consider this post: Personal Finance from a Christian Perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamelasv Posted August 28, 2014 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 132 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 582 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/21/1969 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) Um, was curious about the reference made that the Isrealites were commanded to tithe twice a year. Didn't they give out of there harvests becuase that was the source of their income? Anyway, I personally am a tither, because it is what works for me, what I decided in my heart to give, so when I bring up this next question it is not to argue, and probably off topic. I was wondering why before the law they tithed. As in Abraham give Melchizideck a tenth of all he had. And somewhere else in the OT that I cannot recall. Just remember noting it. Edited August 28, 2014 by Pamelasv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted August 28, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted August 28, 2014 Um, was curious about the reference made that the Isrealites were commanded to tithe twice a year. Didn't they give out of there harvests becuase that was the source of their income? Anyway, I personally am a tither, because it is what works for me, what I decided in my heart to give, so when I bring up this next question it is not to argue, and probably off topic. I was wondering why before the law they tithed. As in Abraham give Melchizideck a tenth of all he had. And somewhere else in the OT that I cannot recall. Just remember noting it. Interesting that you should say that Israel should give out of the source of their income… Are you referring to Abraham and Jacob? If so here are some thoughts 1. Abraham, Melchizedek, and Jacob (Gen. 14:17-20, Genesis 28:20-22) Abraham and Melchizedek This is a common example used to try to argue that the tithe is “pre-law” given to Moses and applies to Christians today. For the first 13 chapters of Genesis there is no mention of the tithe. That is until Abraham and Melchizedek’s story in the Bible. There is no record of Adam, Abel, Cain, Job, or any of Abraham’s predecessors tithing. Abraham in Gen. 14:17-20 gave a thanksgiving offering to God of what he plundered on behalf of the people who had been miraculously rescued. In other words Abraham gave away 10% of other people’s captured goods. From the passage we can see Abraham didn’t tithe on what he already owned but on the spoils of war. Of note: A) Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek was a free will act without any request on God’s part that he should do it. B) The tithe to Melchizidek wasn’t brought into a storehouse or sanctuary. C) Abraham was 80 years old when he tithed and there is no record of him tithing ever again. D) Abraham wasn’t given any promise of blessing for his tithe to Melchizedek. Jacob Tithing too was not a conditional act as referenced in Genesis 28:20-22. Jacob made a vow to God for safe passage, food, and clothing. Notice the term “If God will be with me… then” Jacob uses in the passage. It’s an “if… then” proposition. Of note I don’t believe Jacob ever tithed before or after this occurrence. As far as Hebrews 7 I don’t know that this passage is pointing to tithing for the Believer. However, it does point to Abraham’s generosity towards Melchizedek. And subsequently our generosity in giving as Believers. This passage more importantly points to Christ who is our High Priest. The tithe, different from what is mentioned in Genesis 14, Genesis 28, and Hebrews 7, was given as instruction (command) to Israel and was from what a person earned: See Lev. 27:30; Deut. 14:22-23,28; 2 Chron.31:5-6 {Click link for the links to the passages.}http://eaglesoaringhigher.blogspot.com/2014/05/why-i-dont-believe-christians-should.html?m=0 What do you think? God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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