Matthew 24, for Jews or for Christians?

[Salty]

This clearly is one of the doctrines of elitism some Jews have, which is pretty much still like thinking in the Old Covenant. To not recognize that The New Covenant Jesus Christ is for all... peoples that believe on The Father through His Son's Blood shed upon the cross, is to go back into bondage of believing the Old Covenant can save one's soul, which is confusion.

 

The signs of the end Jesus gave upon the Mount of Olives with His disciples present with Him is for all... peoples who have believed on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ-Messiah. That's why those signs have a direct parallel in Christ's Revelation, which He sent to the seven Churches, to His saints of both believing Israel and believing Gentiles as one body.

[Guest Jesse]

This clearly is one of the doctrines of elitism some Jews have, which is pretty much still like thinking in the Old Covenant. To not recognize that The New Covenant Jesus Christ is for all... peoples that believe on The Father through His Son's Blood shed upon the cross, is to go back into bondage of believing the Old Covenant can save one's soul, which is confusion.

 

The signs of the end Jesus gave upon the Mount of Olives with His disciples present with Him is for all... peoples who have believed on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ-Messiah. That's why those signs have a direct parallel in Christ's Revelation, which He sent to the seven Churches, to His saints of both believing Israel and believing Gentiles as one body.

Salty.

 

The gentiles will be first. For God to prvoke them to jealousy,because they have provoked God to jealousy

in the wilderness.

 

jesse.

[Salty]

 

This clearly is one of the doctrines of elitism some Jews have, which is pretty much still like thinking in the Old Covenant. To not recognize that The New Covenant Jesus Christ is for all... peoples that believe on The Father through His Son's Blood shed upon the cross, is to go back into bondage of believing the Old Covenant can save one's soul, which is confusion.

 

The signs of the end Jesus gave upon the Mount of Olives with His disciples present with Him is for all... peoples who have believed on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ-Messiah. That's why those signs have a direct parallel in Christ's Revelation, which He sent to the seven Churches, to His saints of both believing Israel and believing Gentiles as one body.

Salty.

 

The gentiles will be first. For God to prvoke them to jealousy,because they have provoked God to jealousy

in the wilderness.

 

jesse.

 

 

No, I don't believe in multiple gatherings at different times. Christ will gather His Church, both from Heaven and from earth at the same time, on His way to Jerusalem, and at that time the two houses of Israel will be gathered by Him to the holy land also. Something most forget to consider is how Christ's Church means believing Israelites too, with the majority of them still scattered among the Gentiles. The reason how this gathering when Jesus comes will happen on such a huge scale, and so quickly, is because we all will be in the "spiritual body" at the sound of the 7th trumpet. The spiritual body is not subject to the time-space limitations our flesh bodies are. So to understand that event better, once needs to stop thinking with the flesh. Remember how our Lord Jesus suddenly appeared and then disappeared among His disciples after His resurrection.

[OneLight]

The chosen jews.of all generations. Today there are also jews chosen to be brought back to live.Rom.9:26. 11:5.

They will be in paradise; the kingdom of the resurrected saints.

 

jesse

 

 

Scripture speaks of the 144,000 who will be sealed:

 

Revelation 7:4-8

 

And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;

of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

We are told they will be alive as they go wherever Christ goes as a witness to this world. Neither verse in Romans come anywhere close to claiming they are dead believers coming back to life.

Romans 9:22-26

What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,

And her beloved, who was not beloved.”

“And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,

‘You are not My people,’

There they shall be called sons of the living God.”

Romans 11:1-6

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

[Guest Jesse]

Yes,there are jews specially elected to be brought back to their own land israel.

But it will be paradise. They will be at rest,no pain, no tears, no wars.

The spears into ploughshares and the sword into pruning hooks. the lion will eat straw.

All will live upto one hundred years old. The bear and the lamb will be together.

This will be paradise revisited. And the saints kingdom.

 

The sealed are not many.

These are they whom the father  sealed.John 6:27.

 

jesse.

[OneLight]

That is not correct. I will address each issue below.
 
 

Yes,there are jews specially elected to be brought back to their own land israel.

There is no indication in scripture that they were first dead in order to be "brought back". Please provide scripture where you find this so we can discus them.
 

But it will be paradise. They will be at rest,no pain, no tears, no wars.
The spears into ploughshares and the sword into pruning hooks. the lion will eat straw.
All will live upto one hundred years old. The bear and the lamb will be together.
This will be paradise revisited. And the saints kingdom.

The 144,000 are sealed and on earth doing His will during the tribulation. What you are describing is how life is said to be after the New Heaven and New Earth is created and the New Jerusalem is brought to earth, not before. Your timetable is wrong.
 

The sealed are not many.
These are they whom the father  sealed.John 6:27.
 
jesse.

No, they are who are sealed in Revelation 7:4-8, as I provided the scripture above. The seal in John 6:27 speaks only about Jesus, nobody else.

John 6:26-27

Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

[Guest Jesse]

That is not correct. I will address each issue below.

 

 

Yes,there are jews specially elected to be brought back to their own land israel.

There is no indication in scripture that they were first dead in order to be "brought back". Please provide scripture where you find this so we can discus them.

 

But it will be paradise. They will be at rest,no pain, no tears, no wars.

The spears into ploughshares and the sword into pruning hooks. the lion will eat straw.

All will live upto one hundred years old. The bear and the lamb will be together.

This will be paradise revisited. And the saints kingdom.

The 144,000 are sealed and on earth doing His will during the tribulation. What you are describing is how life is said to be after the New Heaven and New Earth is created and the New Jerusalem is brought to earth, not before. Your timetable is wrong.

 

The sealed are not many.

These are they whom the father  sealed.John 6:27.

 

jesse.

No, they are who are sealed in Revelation 7:4-8, as I provided the scripture above. The seal in John 6:27 speaks only about Jesus, nobody else.

John 6:26-27

Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

 

  John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you:           ***for him hath God the Father sealed***.(Jesus does not need any sealing)( he is the creator).

Do you agree? The sealed are only 144000,not 144000 plus one.

 

No one can come to God but by Jesus. The jews before Christ have not gone through Christ.

Can not come to God through the back door. Jesus is the door;He died on the cross for all.

 

You have misunderstood. The kingdom of God will be on earth after the second coming.

Christ will rule as king of kings and the saints as kings and Priests,for one thousand years.

They will rule over the remnant of the chosen jews. The jews will be taught Christ.

They also must go through Christ.

 

I am glad to discus this,with you.

 

jesse

 

[OneLight]

 

That is not correct. I will address each issue below.

 

 

Yes,there are jews specially elected to be brought back to their own land israel.

There is no indication in scripture that they were first dead in order to be "brought back". Please provide scripture where you find this so we can discus them.

 

But it will be paradise. They will be at rest,no pain, no tears, no wars.

The spears into ploughshares and the sword into pruning hooks. the lion will eat straw.

All will live upto one hundred years old. The bear and the lamb will be together.

This will be paradise revisited. And the saints kingdom.

The 144,000 are sealed and on earth doing His will during the tribulation. What you are describing is how life is said to be after the New Heaven and New Earth is created and the New Jerusalem is brought to earth, not before. Your timetable is wrong.

 

The sealed are not many.

These are they whom the father  sealed.John 6:27.

 

jesse.

No, they are who are sealed in Revelation 7:4-8, as I provided the scripture above. The seal in John 6:27 speaks only about Jesus, nobody else.

John 6:26-27

Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

 

 

  John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you:           ***for him hath God the Father sealed***.(Jesus does not need any sealing)( he is the creator).

 

You neglect the fact that when Christ walked on this earth, He stepped down from His authority as God and had to be ministered to by Angels and sealed with the Holy Spirit as we all do. Yes, God did place a seal on Him as we read in John 6:27. This is clearly seen, without mistake, when examining the Greek:

"for the Father seals the God"

 

Do you agree? The sealed are only 144000,not 144000 plus one.

No, I do not agree because there are more than one type of "seal" We read that all believers are seal by the Holy Spirit:

Ephesians 1:13-14

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The 144,000 have a different seal from God:

Revelation 7:3

“Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”

and

Revelation 14:1

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.

 

No one can come to God but by Jesus. The jews before Christ have not gone through Christ.

Can not come to God through the back door. Jesus is the door;He died on the cross for all.

 

You have misunderstood. The kingdom of God will be on earth after the second coming.

Christ will rule as king of kings and the saints as kings and Priests,for one thousand years.

They will rule over the remnant of the chosen jews. The jews will be taught Christ.

They also must go through Christ.

 

I am glad to discus this,with you.

 

jesse

It is not me who is misunderstanding scripture. It is obvious that you have many errors in your understanding. Christ does reign for 1000 years, but with a rod of iron, not a place where the lamb will lay down with the lion, where everything will be all rosy. Those who are left to live in the 1000 years are not only Jews, but the whole world. Have you not read that after the 1000 years are up, Satan is loosed for a little while to gather another army from the four corners of the world? You should really return to scripture to see what it really says.

May I ask under what church have you been taught this?

[Guest Jesse]

 

 

That is not correct. I will address each issue below.

 

 

Yes,there are jews specially elected to be brought back to their own land israel.

There is no indication in scripture that they were first dead in order to be "brought back". Please provide scripture where you find this so we can discus them.

 

But it will be paradise. They will be at rest,no pain, no tears, no wars.

The spears into ploughshares and the sword into pruning hooks. the lion will eat straw.

All will live upto one hundred years old. The bear and the lamb will be together.

This will be paradise revisited. And the saints kingdom.

The 144,000 are sealed and on earth doing His will during the tribulation. What you are describing is how life is said to be after the New Heaven and New Earth is created and the New Jerusalem is brought to earth, not before. Your timetable is wrong.

 

The sealed are not many.

These are they whom the father  sealed.John 6:27.

 

jesse.

No, they are who are sealed in Revelation 7:4-8, as I provided the scripture above. The seal in John 6:27 speaks only about Jesus, nobody else.

John 6:26-27

Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

 

 

  John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you:           ***for him hath God the Father sealed***.(Jesus does not need any sealing)( he is the creator).

 

You neglect the fact that when Christ walked on this earth, He stepped down from His authority as God and had to be ministered to by Angels and sealed with the Holy Spirit as we all do. Yes, God did place a seal on Him as we read in John 6:27. This is clearly seen, without mistake, when examining the Greek:

"for the Father seals the God"

 

Do you agree? The sealed are only 144000,not 144000 plus one.

No, I do not agree because there are more than one type of "seal" We read that all believers are seal by the Holy Spirit:

Ephesians 1:13-14

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The 144,000 have a different seal from God:

Revelation 7:3

“Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”

and

Revelation 14:1

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.

 

No one can come to God but by Jesus. The jews before Christ have not gone through Christ.

Can not come to God through the back door. Jesus is the door;He died on the cross for all.

 

You have misunderstood. The kingdom of God will be on earth after the second coming.

Christ will rule as king of kings and the saints as kings and Priests,for one thousand years.

They will rule over the remnant of the chosen jews. The jews will be taught Christ.

They also must go through Christ.

 

I am glad to discus this,with you.

 

jesse

It is not me who is misunderstanding scripture. It is obvious that you have many errors in your understanding. Christ does reign for 1000 years, but with a rod of iron, not a place where the lamb will lay down with the lion, where everything will be all rosy. Those who are left to live in the 1000 years are not only Jews, but the whole world. Have you not read that after the 1000 years are up, Satan is loosed for a little while to gather another army from the four corners of the world? You should really return to scripture to see what it really says.

May I ask under what church have you been taught this?

 

My teacher is the Holy spirit,not any church.

What church have taught you?

 

The scriptures can not be broken.

No man can come to the father but by Me.

Jesus is the new covenant.

Jews before Christ have not the the new covenant.

There are jews reserved for paradise,which is the saint's kingdom.

All in Christ only will be the saints.

Some christian jews will also be the saints.

All chosed jews will also be the saints,

but after they have gone through Christ during the thousand years.

 

God will provoke them to jealousy by choosing the gentiles first.

The first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

 

jesse.

[OneLight]

That is not correct. I will address each issue below.

 

 

Yes,there are jews specially elected to be brought back to their own land israel.

There is no indication in scripture that they were first dead in order to be "brought back". Please provide scripture where you find this so we can discus them.

 

But it will be paradise. They will be at rest,no pain, no tears, no wars.

The spears into ploughshares and the sword into pruning hooks. the lion will eat straw.

All will live upto one hundred years old. The bear and the lamb will be together.

This will be paradise revisited. And the saints kingdom.

The 144,000 are sealed and on earth doing His will during the tribulation. What you are describing is how life is said to be after the New Heaven and New Earth is created and the New Jerusalem is brought to earth, not before. Your timetable is wrong.

 

The sealed are not many.

These are they whom the father  sealed.John 6:27.

 

jesse.

No, they are who are sealed in Revelation 7:4-8, as I provided the scripture above. The seal in John 6:27 speaks only about Jesus, nobody else.

John 6:26-27

Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

 

  John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you:           ***for him hath God the Father sealed***.(Jesus does not need any sealing)( he is the creator).

You neglect the fact that when Christ walked on this earth, He stepped down from His authority as God and had to be ministered to by Angels and sealed with the Holy Spirit as we all do. Yes, God did place a seal on Him as we read in John 6:27. This is clearly seen, without mistake, when examining the Greek:

"for the Father seals the God"

 

Do you agree? The sealed are only 144000,not 144000 plus one.

No, I do not agree because there are more than one type of "seal" We read that all believers are seal by the Holy Spirit:

Ephesians 1:13-14

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The 144,000 have a different seal from God:

Revelation 7:3

“Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”

and

Revelation 14:1

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.

 

No one can come to God but by Jesus. The jews before Christ have not gone through Christ.

Can not come to God through the back door. Jesus is the door;He died on the cross for all.

 

You have misunderstood. The kingdom of God will be on earth after the second coming.

Christ will rule as king of kings and the saints as kings and Priests,for one thousand years.

They will rule over the remnant of the chosen jews. The jews will be taught Christ.

They also must go through Christ.

 

I am glad to discus this,with you.

 

jesse

It is not me who is misunderstanding scripture. It is obvious that you have many errors in your understanding. Christ does reign for 1000 years, but with a rod of iron, not a place where the lamb will lay down with the lion, where everything will be all rosy. Those who are left to live in the 1000 years are not only Jews, but the whole world. Have you not read that after the 1000 years are up, Satan is loosed for a little while to gather another army from the four corners of the world? You should really return to scripture to see what it really says.

May I ask under what church have you been taught this?

My teacher is the Holy spirit,not any church.

What church have taught you?

Besides the Holy Spirit teaching me directly, I also have sat under the teaching of others who are His, learning a lot from the true body of Christ, being corrected and held accountable for my beliefs. I am not an island. You would do well, and find wisdom, in listening to those who are further down the road in their walk with Christ, more mature in Him. The major problem with someone who only accepts what they believe is being taught to them by the Holy Spirit is when they are wrong, they refuse correction. This site has many who truly understand scripture. I would advise, advice I also had to accept, that you listen to what others say and search scripture to see if it is true or not, questioning when not fully understood (not assuming you fully understand) and seek clarity from others in what they present. Do not place yourself in a position where you are continually defending your belief. Instead, try to gain more understanding and knowledge.

 

The scriptures can not be broken.

No man can come to the father but by Me.

Jesus is the new covenant.

Jews before Christ have not the the new covenant.

There are jews reserved for paradise,which is the saint's kingdom.

All in Christ only will be the saints.

Some christian jews will also be the saints.

All chosed jews will also be the saints,

but after they have gone through Christ during the thousand years.

 

God will provoke them to jealousy by choosing the gentiles first.

The first shall be last, and the last shall be first.

 

jesse.

The above is exactly what I was speaking to in the first part of my reply. I was not replying to who is saved, how they are save, or if the Jewish people will come to a complete understanding of Christ, but to those who will reign with Christ during the millennium and what it will be like during that time. Instead of addressing what I was speaking to, you go off into an argument that is not even part of this conversation.

Slow down and read what is written to you.