ARGOSY Posted October 3, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted October 3, 2014 So I was just wondering how do those who believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture get a long period, will over 1000 years period between the end of the 69th week of Daniel 9:24-27 and the beginning of the 70th week? For me it comes in the fact that in the middle of the week Messiah was cut off. So I believe that from the coming of Messiah to the cutoff of Messiah was a half of week and the Last half of the week comes with The Lords two Prophets at the end when they shut down the world and usher in the Kingdom of Christ for the remainder of the week. The gap is just the way the Lord decided to do it. from the time that the lords witnesses start their ministry to the second coming of the Lord will be 1335 days. Well said. Jesus' ministry was 3.5 years long. The future great tribulation is 3.5 years long. During both periods God fulfils his promise to send Jews a Messiah to set them free, Jesus brings salvation to Israel: Romans 11:25 Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in When was the A/D set up? Middle of the one seven. Read Scripture 70 Sevens have been decreed. 70, seven year periods have been decreed. Where does that leave a split 1/2 of the week. In Christ Montana Marv If 69 1/2 weeks have been fulfilled, and the crucifixion interrupted the Jewish period, this leaves 3.5 Jewish years left. I agree the A/D still needs to be set up, this is the sign Jesus warned us of, which starts the great tribulation. Jesus never mentioned any so-called peace treaty. Just 3.5 years are left. Matthew 24: 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:................................................. 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. As mentioned already by zhavoney, the two witnesses are in Jerusalem for the last 3.5 years. Jesus witnessed for 3.5 years in Israel, then the two witnesses will witness for 3.5 years in Israel. For 7 years the true Messiah will be confirmed to the Jewish nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted October 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,135 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2014 So I was just wondering how do those who believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture get a long period, will over 1000 years period between the end of the 69th week of Daniel 9:24-27 and the beginning of the 70th week? For me it comes in the fact that in the middle of the week Messiah was cut off. So I believe that from the coming of Messiah to the cutoff of Messiah was a half of week and the Last half of the week comes with The Lords two Prophets at the end when they shut down the world and usher in the Kingdom of Christ for the remainder of the week. The gap is just the way the Lord decided to do it. from the time that the lords witnesses start their ministry to the second coming of the Lord will be 1335 days. Well said. Jesus' ministry was 3.5 years long. The future great tribulation is 3.5 years long. During both periods God fulfils his promise to send Jews a Messiah to set them free, Jesus brings salvation to Israel: Romans 11:25 Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in When was the A/D set up? Middle of the one seven. Read Scripture 70 Sevens have been decreed. 70, seven year periods have been decreed. Where does that leave a split 1/2 of the week. In Christ Montana Marv If 69 1/2 weeks have been fulfilled, and the crucifixion interrupted the Jewish period, this leaves 3.5 Jewish years left. I agree the A/D still needs to be set up, this is the sign Jesus warned us of, which starts the great tribulation. Jesus never mentioned any so-called peace treaty. Just 3.5 years are left. Matthew 24: 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:................................................. 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. As mentioned already by zhavoney, the two witnesses are in Jerusalem for the last 3.5 years. Jesus witnessed for 3.5 years in Israel, then the two witnesses will witness for 3.5 years in Israel. For 7 years the true Messiah will be confirmed to the Jewish nation. Argosy You have missed the point. Christ dying on the Cross would have been the fulfillment of the end of sacrifices, the veil split. This is how some view Dan 9:27. Scripture says; after the 62 sevens the Anointed One will be cut off. Notice nothing about a 70th Week here. I would like you to tell me where the 50 yard line is in American football, and from which direction you are making your assessment. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted October 7, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted October 7, 2014 If 69 1/2 weeks have been fulfilled, and the crucifixion interrupted the Jewish period, this leaves 3.5 Jewish years left. I agree the A/D still needs to be set up, this is the sign Jesus warned us of, which starts the great tribulation. Jesus never mentioned any so-called peace treaty. Just 3.5 years are left. Matthew 24: 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:................................................. 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. As mentioned already by zhavoney, the two witnesses are in Jerusalem for the last 3.5 years. Jesus witnessed for 3.5 years in Israel, then the two witnesses will witness for 3.5 years in Israel. For 7 years the true Messiah will be confirmed to the Jewish nation. You have missed the point. Christ dying on the Cross would have been the fulfillment of the end of sacrifices, the veil split. This is how some view Dan 9:27. Scripture says; after the 62 sevens the Anointed One will be cut off. Notice nothing about a 70th Week here. I would like you to tell me where the 50 yard line is in American football, and from which direction you are making your assessment. In Christ Montana Marv Yes, Christ dying on the cross was the end of sacrifices, I agree with your statement which I highlighted above. This occurred 3.5 years after the "coming of the anointed one", so yes it did occur "after". And I agree that no mention of the 70 th week is mentioned in verse 26, its only in verse 27 where we can place that "cut off" moment into the 70th seven. The cut off relates to the ending of sacrifice and both occur at the crucifixion , which occurred in the middle of the last seven. I believe the last seven was "interrupted" at the crucifixion. This is the reason Daniel 12 only mentions the 3.5 years, and Jesus also only refers to the 3.5 years starting from the abomination. No where in the NT is 7 years mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhavoney Posted October 8, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2014 So I was just wondering how do those who believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture get a long period, will over 1000 years period between the end of the 69th week of Daniel 9:24-27 and the beginning of the 70th week? For me it comes in the fact that in the middle of the week Messiah was cut off. So I believe that from the coming of Messiah to the cutoff of Messiah was a half of week and the Last half of the week comes with The Lords two Prophets at the end when they shut down the world and usher in the Kingdom of Christ for the remainder of the week. The gap is just the way the Lord decided to do it. from the time that the lords witnesses start their ministry to the second coming of the Lord will be 1335 days. I agree the remaining symbolic 3.5 days or half a week is from CHRIST being crucified until the end. Revelation 11:11 " And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them." These 3.5 days must encompass the two symbolic witnesses. This means the witnesses must have commenced witnessing during the remaining half of Daniel's 70th week. Could these two witnesses be a symbol of the countless faithful who have preached th everlasting gospel to the ends of the world? I used to think so until the Lord called My attention to the tenth verse of revelation 11:10 ------, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. Two prophets are specifically two people. Thanks, I also noted the verse quoted below: Revelation 11:10 " And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." I want to bring ur attention to also the one below: Revelation 11:5 " And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed." I don't believe that a literal fire goes out from their mouth. This statement is obviously a jewish idiom to describe the power of their anointing as Jesus said the following to his disciples: John 20:21-22 21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.” The two symbolic witnesses have the anointing/baptism of the fire, that is of the Holy Ghost, therefore it logically follows that the two witnesses are of the great commission to preach the everlasting gospel from their mouths, hence this is the fire that proceeds from their mouth. In conclusion all who are born of water and fire (Holy Ghost), who hold the testimony of Jesus, are declared by scripture to pour out the fire from their mouths to the unbelieving world. It is by this preaching to the world, that rejects the message, whereby the Holy Ghost devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed The death that scripture is talking about is spiritual death after the earthly body is dissolved. These two symbolic witnesses started of being the disciples as was projected to them in the vision on the mount of transfiguration where the symbol of Elijah (prophets) and MOSES (law) was shown and they were told to tell no man until the risen Lord breathed on them the Holy Ghost and commissioned them as the two symbolic witnesses. This was a transfer of the law and the prophets which go hand in hand with the great commission in preaching the everlasting gospel to the world. Remember that the testimony of jesus is the Spirit of prophecy (Rev. 19:10) Also Saint Paul once stated: Romans 2:14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. The two symbolic witnesses must be those who hold the testimony of Jesus who have preached the fire that proceeded from their mouth across all generation, remember Jesus said to go into the world and make disciples of the world and to preach the message until the end. The fire that proceeds from their mouth is the same as Elijah. He spoke and fire fell on His enemies and devoured them. 2 Kings 1 10 So Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, "If I am a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men." And fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhavoney Posted October 9, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2014 The abomination of desolation is not the beginning of the two witnesses ministry nor is it the beginning of the great tribulation. The abomination of desolation will not be full grown and sealed until 1290 days after the two witnesses take away God's daily sacrifice to man. The just shall live by faith. No one goes up to meet the Lord in the air until day 1335. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Watchman Posted October 10, 2014 Group: Junior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/10/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2014 The abomination of desolation is not the beginning of the two witnesses ministry nor is it the beginning of the great tribulation. The abomination of desolation will not be full grown and sealed until 1290 days after the two witnesses take away God's daily sacrifice to man. The just shall live by faith. No one goes up to meet the Lord in the air until day 1335. Hi zhavoney Thank you for your post I think that my view may be similar from what I can understand of yours. I think that the three prophetic time periods from Daniel 12 are the keys in establishing the Revelation end time time line. Can you expand on what you mean by the two witnesses taking away the daily? I also think that "the daily" is God's sacrifice to man but that it is "taken away" by The Bad Guy. This is something going on in Heaven's Temple. I have 1335 days as the full duration of the tribulation, with the two smaller prophetic time periods taking place within the larger one. The taking away of the daily is the casting down of the censer from Rev. 8 and is the trigger event for the start of The Appointed Time of The End. What do you mean by the AofD being "full grown and sealed"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted October 10, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2014 The abomination of desolation is not the beginning of the two witnesses ministry nor is it the beginning of the great tribulation. The abomination of desolation will not be full grown and sealed until 1290 days after the two witnesses take away God's daily sacrifice to man. The just shall live by faith. No one goes up to meet the Lord in the air until day 1335. I disagree; John disagrees; Jesus disagrees. As soon as the Dragon (Satan) sees that some of the Jews (Hebrews) have fled into the wilderness, he will use the man of sin turned Beast to go after them. Failing in that, he will go after all believers. It will be the start of the days of great tribulation. The days of GT will not reach their peak until the image and mark are established. The two witnesses will begin their testimony just 3 1/2 days before the abomination, testify for 1260 days, then be killed and lay dead for 3 1/2 days, taking them to the 7th vial that ends the week. They raise up at the 7th vial with all the Old Testament saints. the 1290 days count will begin at the abomination, and continue 30 days past the end of the 70th week, or 30 days past the 7th vial. You are miles off (actually more than 7 years) on the rapture. Paul teaches us that it will be the TRIGGER (coming before) the start of the Day of the Lord. John shows us that the Day of the Lord begins before the 70th week, in chapter 6. The bride of Christ - those caught up - will not even see the man of sin turned Beast. LAMAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhavoney Posted October 13, 2014 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 57 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 13, 2014 The abomination of desolation is not the beginning of the two witnesses ministry nor is it the beginning of the great tribulation. The abomination of desolation will not be full grown and sealed until 1290 days after the two witnesses take away God's daily sacrifice to man. The just shall live by faith. No one goes up to meet the Lord in the air until day 1335. Hi zhavoney Thank you for your post I think that my view may be similar from what I can understand of yours. I think that the three prophetic time periods from Daniel 12 are the keys in establishing the Revelation end time time line. Can you expand on what you mean by the two witnesses taking away the daily? I also think that "the daily" is God's sacrifice to man but that it is "taken away" by The Bad Guy. This is something going on in Heaven's Temple. I have 1335 days as the full duration of the tribulation, with the two smaller prophetic time periods taking place within the larger one. The taking away of the daily is the casting down of the censer from Rev. 8 and is the trigger event for the start of The Appointed Time of The End. What do you mean by the AofD being "full grown and sealed"? It is actually the true Prince of the Host that takes away the daily sacrifice and casts down the little horn's sanctuary. But even then the little horn practices deceit and seems to prosper. You can read about how the Prince of the Host cast down the horns sanctuary in Revelation 11. Those two Hosts are given over to the horn. Daniel 8: 10 And it waxed great , even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away , and the place of his sanctuary was cast down . 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced , and prospered . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel 11:36 Posted October 19, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,957 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 295 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) This breach of silence in the prophetic time lapse is found in all of the prophets' visions during which no events upon the earth are recorded .... this time lapse is still running today The visions do not resume until the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel begins to roll The Lord's discourse in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 projects the very same and longer look to the ending of this present age The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD was not the time of the end The Lord has delayed His next intervention to bring the 70th week and subsequent millennial kingdom upon the earth..... the coming tribulation period and time of Jacob's trouble and beyond [2 Peter 3] He has done this because of Israel's rejection of Him as the nation's Messiah and King in the first century And when the adding of the nation's of the Gentiles to His Ecclesia is complete, He will then turn to a returned believing remnant who will accept Him during the coming time of Jacob's trouble [Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Daniel 9:24-27; Zechariah 12; 13:8-9; 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Luke 21:20-36; Romans 11;25-36; Revelation 12:6; 12:14-17] Edited October 19, 2014 by Daniel 11:36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seandavids Posted November 24, 2014 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 244 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/10/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2014 I've always wondered why theologians have ascribed the Daniel 9:24-27 passage to be about Jesus Gabriel the angel came to Daniel and told him he was there to give him insight and understanding to the vision he already received the vision in chapter 8 is fully about what the antichrist will do when he shows up, thus if you were to read it fully to be about the antichrist......the 70 weeks have not even started yet......and they would actually be weeks.....not weeks of years and all the many other ways theologians have tried to bend them to fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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