The_Patriot21 Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,722 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,537 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted September 3, 2014 .... I do see it as a fleshly human behavior instead of a spiritual behaviour... That is what I am seeing too. The person some of you feel the need to protect yourselves from is likely an unbeliever. You are a believer, You get to heaven. The unbeliever does not. The life you take with a gun will not get to hear the gospel again. yes, but on the contary, in another way of looking at it-lets say your in a mall full of people, and someone starts shooting. chances are, the people he shoots arnt believers either. . .they wont even get the option to hear Jesus, they didn't choose that-that shooter chose to pick up that gun. food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,800 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,245 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 Hall, you say that guns are different. That they are an instrument of death. You said that they can do do of their own will. My question is are you serious? That is ridiculous. Guns have no will whatsoever. They are intimate objects. Only a living being can have a will, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a intimate object to do anything-especially kill someone. To suggest that guns are different because they can kill on their own accord is as ridiculous as the moon being made of swiss cheese. As far "thou shalt not kill" that's already been properly addressed Pat, Im guessing you mean inanimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,800 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,245 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 3, 2014 .... I do see it as a fleshly human behavior instead of a spiritual behaviour... That is what I am seeing too. The person some of you feel the need to protect yourselves from is likely an unbeliever. You are a believer, You get to heaven. The unbeliever does not. The life you take with a gun will not get to hear the gospel again. yes, but on the contary, in another way of looking at it-lets say your in a mall full of people, and someone starts shooting. chances are, the people he shoots arnt believers either. . .they wont even get the option to hear Jesus, they didn't choose that-that shooter chose to pick up that gun. food for thought. Defending others is something I can go with. But some believers think we should defend ourselves as individuals. I look at early Christians who did not do that and died for their faith. Which is the right thing to do in that instance? Something I ask myself often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,722 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,537 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted September 3, 2014 yes I meant inanimate Jade, thankyou, I was using my cell phone and auto-correct got me. And you bring forth a valid point-which wasn't necessarily the topic at hand here but valid nonetheless. Every instance in the Bible-where it shows the disciples standing down and dying as martyrs-was for their faith. But nowhere, in the new testament, does it show an example of men breaking into their homes at random to rape their wives, for example. A lot of crime these days-isnt necessarily due to ones faith. A gangster driving down the road looking for a easy hit-doesnt care about your faith. To me personally, if Im by myself-I think id be a lot less likely to use deadly force and more likely to find another way out of the situation-especially if it was over my faith. But if it was the middle of the night and some stranger broke into my house in the middle of the night with the intent to kidnap my children-the only thing Id be praying for is that God gives me deadly accuracy. I think theres a time and place for everything-including deadly force, Jesus even told Peter that in the garden. Jesus didn't tell Peter it was wrong to have the sword-quite the contrary he had told Peter to buy the sword shortly before that, nor was it necessarily wrong to use force-His words were, basically, this isn't the time or the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted September 3, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 3, 2014 Count me as a ignorant Southern from a State whose motto is Sportsman Paridise, but Mark me down as full 2nd Amendment rights, no restrictions, own them, carry them if you qualify, self-defense, supporter of guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He giveth more grace Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 267 Days Won: 9 Joined: 10/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 By the way, AR15's are no assault rifle, they have the look, but it is not full auto, it is the same as a bolt action carbine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 4, 2014 Share Posted September 4, 2014 i'd like to point out what should be obvious, but apparently is not. first of all, killing is not the same as murder. God makes clear distinctions between the two. secondly, and this is CRITICAL here, is that killing a human being (whether it was murder, or an accident, lethal injection, or self defense) does NOT make the person who killed responsible for that person's lack of salvation. God gives EVERY human ample opportunity to recognize, acknowledge, repent and accept salvation. NO man is without excuse. God knows, and has known since the beginning of creation, the number of each person's days and whether or not that person would accept the gift of eternal life. NOTHING any other human being can do can thwart His plan. God will not allow the death of someone who WOULD accept Him before he DOES accept Him. only those who would never have accepted Him in the first place are going to die without Him. so people here really need to stop trying to make it out as though anybody could possibly be the cause of another going to hell. it just ain't so. and third, people here seem to be forgetting that Jesus and God are always of one accord. ALWAYS. God is a God of justice. vengeance is His. throughout history He has instructed His people to bear arms and defeat evil. yes, He utilizes His people to carry out His plan, His justice. i get the distinct feeling that there are some "NT-Only" folks in this thread, who feel that the OT is irrelevant. i might pop back into this thread once in a while, but i might not.... the amount of judgment and disdain being dished out by at least one who believes that God is all about peace and not about justice is getting me riled up, and that's not good for my health or for the sanity of my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,275 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 28,005 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 Other, I have heard your arguments. Possessing and carrying all the guns in the world will grant you not one more minute of safety. Our ONLY hope is Jesus. One enemy enters your front door threatening you. You defend yourself. His brother shoots you from behind. You never even knew he was there. Now who protects your, or my family. I will trust God. If He leads me to pickup arms, then I will. I do not say you are wrong to do all you can. Does God lead everyone to live the same life, or for that matter to die the same way? If the enemy opens my front door he will steady my aim and prevent me from shooting if it's a swat team. If he approaches me from behind I will hear him draw his weapon..... and if we do away with guns he'd just stab me in the back anyway. In what you are saying it seems that every evil thing that happens to Christians is Gods doing. He either does it himself or stands by letting evil have it's way and I am not supposed to react or try and stop it...... well in my world that is sick. It's what the Jews did in Germany and if the American People had reacted your way, we'd all be speaking German...... or dead. I think I am a lot like LadyC..... As Forest Gump says, "and that's about all I have to say about that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 Hall, you say that guns are different. That they are an instrument of death. You said that they can do do of their own will. My question is are you serious? That is ridiculous. Guns have no will whatsoever. They are intimate objects. Only a living being can have a will, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a intimate object to do anything-especially kill someone. To suggest that guns are different because they can kill on their own accord is as ridiculous as the moon being made of swiss cheese. As far "thou shalt not kill" that's already been properly addressed I'm sorry you misunderstood Post #47 Patriot... Post #47: Because guns are different than anything else, they will cause death out of "our" own will, they are an instrument of death. Doctors, seatbelts, helmets etc protect you from death but they aren't instruments of death. The Bible says "Thou shall not kill", to carry a gun around is to know in our subconscious that we might have to kill one day, so why carry that burden around when we know that God is more powerful than a gun to offer us protection. I understand that the Military is a different story, but there is no need to carry a gun around all day in our private civilian free lives when we trust in the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall7 Posted September 4, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,385 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 491 Days Won: 5 Joined: 04/25/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 4, 2014 I'm sorry that this discussion stirred up a spirit of anger amongst some, I'm not judging anyone and really wish that we could all see eye to eye as a loving family in Christ. I could go on and have an answer for every post addressed to me, but what I see within my peaceful spirit would only fuel the fire more within the spirit of anger... So I will leave you with these verses, read them and absorb them over and over, they are very important to find peace within... God bless you all. 2 Timothy 1:7 For God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control. Joshua 1:9 Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.” Hebrews 13:6 So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?” 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. Psalm 23:4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. Psalm 27:1 Of David. The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is the stronghold of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? Deuteronomy 31:8 It is the Lord who goes before you. He will be with you; he will not leave you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed.” Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” Romans 8:1-39 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. Isaiah 41:10 Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. Matthew 10:31 Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Proverbs 14:27 The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, that one may turn away from the snares of death. Luke 12:7 Why, even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not; you are of more value than many sparrows. Psalm 34:4 I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears. Psalm 83:18 That they may know that you alone, whose name is the Lord, are the Most High over all the earth. Jeremiah 39:17-18 But I will deliver you on that day, declares the Lord, and you shall not be given into the hand of the men of whom you are afraid. For I will surely save you, and you shall not fall by the sword, but you shall have your life as a prize of war, because you have put your trust in me, declares the Lord.’” Isaiah 43:1-2 But now thus says the Lord, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: “Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine. When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you. Luke 8:25 He said to them, “Where is your faith?” And they were afraid, and they marveled, saying to one another, “Who then is this, that he commands even winds and water, and they obey him?” Psalm 27:13 I believe that I shall look upon the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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