Sola Scriptura

[Guest shiloh357]

Really this discussion is going to come down to a word.

I think we've come down to semantics now.

It's the determination of the Church to recognize the 27 books of the New Testament as the canon of scripture.

 

No, it is not semantics.   You are playing games with these two words.   Recognizing and determining are light-years apart from each other and mean completely different thing. I think you know that, but you are reaching for anything you can to avoid having to come to grips with reality, 

 

Regardless how you phrase it, it was the Church being guided by the Holy Spirit and it was NOT scripture that gave us the canon. No where in scripture will you find a list of the canon. Therefore the Church exercised its authority to close the canon.

 

The Church discovered the canon.  The Church did not determine it.  The Church was led by the Holy Spirit in discovering which books are inspired.

 

Your view is incorrect because you base it in the authority of the Church.   The correct view is based on the authority of Scripture and the reality that the Church derives its authority from the Scripture. not the other way around.    Your view incorrectly places the Church over the canon. The correct view places the church under the canon.

 

God is the determiner of the canon, not the Church. 

[Fez]

My phrasing was a bit sloppy so I apologize. The Church through the guidance of the Holy Spirit determined/recognized which books where inspired and which ones were not.

You can use the word determined or recognized inter changeable here I think.

I agree with everything Shiloh has said, and have one question, which church are you talking about?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Where have I said the Church has authority over scripture.

Where in scripture do you find the canon and where does the bible say it's closed.

[Fez]

Where have I said the Church has authority over scripture.

Where in scripture do you find the canon and where does the bible say it's closed.

The Church is Christ's body so how can the Word be greater than the Body when both are from God.

 

By inference, if not directly. So tell me, which church are you talking about?

[Guest shiloh357]

Where have I said the Church has authority over scripture.

 

You said the church determined the canon, which necessarily places the church over the canon as its judge.

 

Where in scripture do you find the canon and where does the bible say it's closed.

 

Paul refers to Luke as Scripture and and Peter refers to Paul's writings as Scripture.   So we know that the canon of Scripture was being recognized much earlier than most people think.  

 

Jude 3 is an important verse for understanding that the canon is closed.

 

Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

(Jud 1:3)

 

The word "faith" is the same word used in other places in the NT when referring to the Christian faith.  The Chrisitan faith was once delivered (aorist passive participle).  The word delievred as it appears in the Greek refers to acompleted past event.   It was once delivered.  It does not have to be continually delivered.  There are no missing parts we are still waiting on.   Our faith is complete and we have a completed canon, no secret missing documents that we don't know about that are yet to be added on.   Our faith is rooted in a canon that has been delivered to us once and for all.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Under what authority does Paul or anyone else have to make that claim. Where in scripture does Paul get that from?

[Guest shiloh357]

Under what authority does Paul or anyone else have to make that claim. Where in scripture does Paul get that from?

Paul was operating under his God-given apostolic authority and was also writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, same with Peter.

 

So if you are going to challenge their claims, then you must necessarily challenge the infallibility of Scripture.   Are you prepared to do that?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

This is entering circle reasoning.

Paul has authority cause the bible says he has authority. But there was no New Testament to make that claim in the time Paul.

Therefore if sola Scriptura is correct than in the time of Paul they could only use the Old Testament. Because that was scripture and you can only go by scripture alone.

I stand by my original stance. Jesus created a Church and gave that Church authority. That comes directly from scripture and sola Scriptura does not come from scripture.

[Fez]

This is entering circle reasoning.

Paul has authority cause the bible says he has authority. But there was no New Testament to make that claim in the time Paul.

Therefore if sola Scriptura is correct than in the time of Paul they could only use the Old Testament. Because that was scripture and you can only go by scripture alone.

I stand by my original stance. Jesus created a Church and gave that Church authority. That comes directly from scripture and sola Scriptura does not come from scripture.

So what Church are you talking about?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

I just read Acts 15: 1-21. Another example of Peter exercising his Church authority.