Hear, O Israel: The Lord thy God is one Lord?

[SUS]

(Quoted from Deut. 6:4) Is he really? Well, technically, yes, there is only one creator of the Universe. But, does this deny the trinity? Absolutely not (Also, if I'm wrong on anything, correct me!)

 

If you look back to the Hebrew, the word used for one is Echad. That word can either mean "One", which denies the trinity, or it can mean things like "Unison", "altogether", or "united".

 

Which one should we choose? I choose the second definition for a a few reasons.

 

1. The Septuagint.

Simply put, it shows the Tanakh, or Old Testament, has been preserved.

 

2. The use of Echad over Yachid

Now, since we know the Tanakh/Old Testament is preserved (The Septuagint is from 200-300 B.C.), the writer of Deut. decided to use Echad, which can mean either One or Unity, over Yachid, which can only mean "Only", "Only One", or Solitary.". If Moses wanted the people to understand that there was trinity, Yachid is clearly the better option.

[Qnts2]

 

(Quoted from Deut. 6:4) Is he really? Well, technically, yes, there is only one creator of the Universe. But, does this deny the trinity? Absolutely not (Also, if I'm wrong on anything, correct me!)

 

If you look back to the Hebrew, the word used for one is Echad. That word can either mean "One", which denies the trinity, or it can mean things like "Unison", "altogether", or "united".

 

Which one should we choose? I choose the second definition for a a few reasons.

 

1. The Septuagint.

Simply put, it shows the Tanakh, or Old Testament, has been preserved.

 

2. The use of Echad over Yachid

Now, since we know the Tanakh/Old Testament is preserved (The Septuagint is from 200-300 B.C.), the writer of Deut. decided to use Echad, which can mean either One or Unity, over Yachid, which can only mean "Only", "Only One", or Solitary.". If Moses wanted the people to understand that there was trinity, Yachid is clearly the better option.

 

 

Yachid can also mean unique. 

 

Echad is used for a unity, as in a man and wife become one in marriage.  But, I do believe there is only one God. In my view, speaking of the trinity, we are talking about the nature of the One God. By nature, the one God is three by nature.  

 

The prayer, 'Hear oh Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one', in Hebrew would be 'Baruch ata Adonai, Elochenu, Adonai, echad'. Adonai has a pronomial suffix, which mean 'our', and that suffix applies to a plurality. Elochenu also has a pronomial suffix, for 'our' and applies to objects, or a plurality of objects.

 

The word elochim is plural, and means gods. Context in Hebrew is important, as a plural noun should have a verb which is in a plural form, making the noun and verb match. If I saw they worshipped gods, we would be talking about a form of idolatry. However, in Hebrew there are times Elochim is used with a singular verb. That breaks standard Hebrew grammar conventions. Whenever Elochim is used with a singular verb, it refers to God. From a trinity viewpoint, it confirms One God being three. I should say that Judaism which denies the trinity views the use of Elochim with a singular verb as a sign of royal majesty and not speaking about the nature of God.       

[Marilyn C]

Hi Qnts2,

 

Thank you for that explanation. There is so much to learn here at Worthy.

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

[Butch5]

 

(Quoted from Deut. 6:4) Is he really? Well, technically, yes, there is only one creator of the Universe. But, does this deny the trinity? Absolutely not (Also, if I'm wrong on anything, correct me!)

 

If you look back to the Hebrew, the word used for one is Echad. That word can either mean "One", which denies the trinity, or it can mean things like "Unison", "altogether", or "united".

 

Which one should we choose? I choose the second definition for a a few reasons.

 

1. The Septuagint.

Simply put, it shows the Tanakh, or Old Testament, has been preserved.

 

2. The use of Echad over Yachid

Now, since we know the Tanakh/Old Testament is preserved (The Septuagint is from 200-300 B.C.), the writer of Deut. decided to use Echad, which can mean either One or Unity, over Yachid, which can only mean "Only", "Only One", or Solitary.". If Moses wanted the people to understand that there was trinity, Yachid is clearly the better option.

 

Paul uses "heis" one, when speaking of the Father. He draws a distinction between the Father and Jesus. His usage refutes the modern concept of the Trinity but not the original understanding of the Trinity.

 

KJV  1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1Co 8:6 KJV)

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

(Quoted from Deut. 6:4) Is he really? Well, technically, yes, there is only one creator of the Universe. But, does this deny the trinity? Absolutely not (Also, if I'm wrong on anything, correct me!)

 

If you look back to the Hebrew, the word used for one is Echad. That word can either mean "One", which denies the trinity, or it can mean things like "Unison", "altogether", or "united".

 

Which one should we choose? I choose the second definition for a a few reasons.

 

1. The Septuagint.

Simply put, it shows the Tanakh, or Old Testament, has been preserved.

 

2. The use of Echad over Yachid

Now, since we know the Tanakh/Old Testament is preserved (The Septuagint is from 200-300 B.C.), the writer of Deut. decided to use Echad, which can mean either One or Unity, over Yachid, which can only mean "Only", "Only One", or Solitary.". If Moses wanted the people to understand that there was trinity, Yachid is clearly the better option.

 

Paul uses "heis" one, when speaking of the Father. He draws a distinction between the Father and Jesus. His usage refutes the modern concept of the Trinity but not the original understanding of the Trinity.

 

KJV  1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. (1Co 8:6 KJV)

 

So Butch do you deny the Deity of Jesus??

[Butch5]

No, do you deny what Moses and Paul said?

[Guest]

Who

 

And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?

 

For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

 

David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son?

 

And the common people heard him gladly. Mark 12:35-37

 

Is

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

The same was in the beginning with God.

 

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3

 

LORD

 

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

 

~

 

 

No, do you deny what Moses and Paul said?

 

 

To Deny The LORD Jesus

 

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

 

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

 

And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

 

And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. Deuteronomy 6:4-7

 

Is To Deny His Father

 

And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. Exodus 33:11

 

And Beloved

 

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Matthew 11:27

 

Surely You

 

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

 

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2:22-23

 

Wouldn't

 

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:3

 

~

 

Be Blessed

 

The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; Isaiah 61:1

 

Beloved Of The KING

 

And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

 

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

 

To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

 

And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

 

And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. Luke 4:17-21

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

No, do you deny what Moses and Paul said?

I think what I deny is how you handle what Moses and Paul said and the conclusions you draw from that.  To deny your take on their words is not equivalent to denying what they said.   Tell me this, do you believe in the deity and person of the Holy Spirit? 

 

What do you believe about the pre-existence of Jesus before creation?

 

And tell me this,  could you articulate what the doctrine of the Trinity actually says?

[JohnD]

The trinity / nature of God is best understood when we allow God to educate us on the subject devoid of human meddling.

 

The Bible clearly teaches that God the Son preincarnate (God the Word) is the lone Creator of all things created in the beginning (Isaiah 44:24, John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:13-16, Hebrews 1:2). And that the Father's only creation is the body of the Son (John 1:14b,, Hebrews 10:5, Hebrews 1:5).

 

yet the so-called Apostle's creed begins with:

 

I believe in God the Father Creator of heaven and earth...

 

Wrong!

 

God doesn't need our help.

 

When we realize this we can see clearly truly his Word the Bible is his version of all things and the only truth on any and all subjects. It is there we find the absolute truth to anchor all reality in.

 

Otherwise we are damned to relativism and only fooling ourselves and each other that we even had or know truth at all.  

[Butch5]

 

No, do you deny what Moses and Paul said?

I think what I deny is how you handle what Moses and Paul said and the conclusions you draw from that.  To deny your take on their words is not equivalent to denying what they said.   Tell me this, do you believe in the deity and person of the Holy Spirit? 

 

What do you believe about the pre-existence of Jesus before creation?

 

And tell me this,  could you articulate what the doctrine of the Trinity actually says?

 

Actually, I haven't given my take on the their words. I pointed out what Paul said, that's all. He said, to us there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.

 

To answer your question about the Holy Spirit, yes, I do.

The answer to the second question would be, the Word existed before the creation. The Word became flesh, Jesus.

The third question depends one what you mean by the Trinity, are you asking for the modern understanding or the original? If you're asking about the modern understanding, it's typically what is explained in the Anthanasian Creed, three coequal, co-eternal, existing as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It seems that a good bit of the Christians I converse with understand it as one God, three persons, which technically it could be said that way, but then they go and say "He" when speaking of that one God. The pronoun "He" is first person singular, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is three not one. When asked to explain how three can be one, most can't and that's when we start to hear things like, "it's a mystery" or "it's beyond our understanding" etc. Well, no, it's not, it's a contradiction that's why they can't explain it. Many don't seem to realize that the word "God" is used as both a name and a title. The Greek word Theos means deity. The Father is God, Deity, therefore anyone born of Him is Deity, thus the Word which became flesh, the man Jesus is Deity. The Holy Spirit also precedes from the Father, thus He Deity. However, they are not one being, The Father is the ultimate authority.

 

 

If you're asking about the original understanding, it is just as Paul said, 'to use there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ which can be seen in the Nicene Creed.

 

 

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen. 

 

This creed was instituted after the Arian controversy where the it was agreed upon that Jesus was not created but was begotten of God, He is God because He came forth from God. Jesus He come out of God, anyone who proceeds from deity is deity.

 

 

So, the original understanding is that the Father has existed eternally, at some point before creation the Father begot the Word, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.