Dual Kingdom Populace

[Salty]

I've already shown plenty of Scripture evidence to show that Christ's Church has never... been a separate entity apart from God's Israel, nor will it ever be. Men's doctrines of Dispensationalism, and orthodox unbelieving Jews can try to create a separation all they want, but that is where the real 'fallacy' is, in their own minds, as God gave plenty of proof of the direct historical connections of The Gospel of Jesus Christ with the Old Testament saints and the New Testament saints. The straw man arguments are actually their arguments that are against His Word on that very point of The Gospel connection between the Old and New Testament Books involving the believers of Israel, with believing Gentiles graffed in with them.

[Enoch2021]

1.  I've already shown plenty of Scripture evidence to show that Christ's Church has never... been a separate entity apart from God's Israel, 2.  nor will it ever be. 3.  Men's doctrines of Dispensationalism, and orthodox unbelieving Jews 4.  can try to create a separation all they want, 5.  but that is where the real 'fallacy' is, in their own minds, 6.  as God gave plenty of proof of the direct historical connections 7.  of The Gospel of Jesus Christ with the Old Testament saints and the New Testament saints. 8.  The straw man arguments are actually their arguments that  9.  are against His Word on that very point 10. of The Gospel connection between the Old and New Testament Books involving the believers of Israel, with believing Gentiles graffed in with them.

 

Unsupported Assertion (Fallacy) x 10

 

You've attempted to support your narrative but cannot.  Why? It's Impossible.  I've asked you no less than 20 Specific Questions directly relating to your position; of which, you have answered exactly ZERO.

 

 

1.  Please show "Christ's Church"<---- Born Again Christians, in the Old Testament....?

 

2.  When was Israel Born.....?

 

3.  When was "The Church" Born......?

 

Is there a difference here:

 

4.  Born Again Christian and an Unbelieving Jew?

 

5.  The Old Testament (Covenant) and the New Testament (Covenant)?  Testament, as you know = Covenant

 

Between....

 

6.  (Revelation 7:4) "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

 

and these...

 

7.  (Revelation 7:9) "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

 

 

8.  Who is Christ's Wife/Bride....?

 

9.  Where is "She" in Revelation?

 

10.  In Revelation 19:11-16, who is Christ returning to Save Here?  Who is following HIM?

 

If you skip answering any of the questions here "directly", I'll take that tacitly as you can't, and end our discussion.

 

 

regards

[Salty]

 

1.  I've already shown plenty of Scripture evidence to show that Christ's Church has never... been a separate entity apart from God's Israel, 2.  nor will it ever be. 3.  Men's doctrines of Dispensationalism, and orthodox unbelieving Jews 4.  can try to create a separation all they want, 5.  but that is where the real 'fallacy' is, in their own minds, 6.  as God gave plenty of proof of the direct historical connections 7.  of The Gospel of Jesus Christ with the Old Testament saints and the New Testament saints. 8.  The straw man arguments are actually their arguments that  9.  are against His Word on that very point 10. of The Gospel connection between the Old and New Testament Books involving the believers of Israel, with believing Gentiles graffed in with them.

 

Unsupported Assertion (Fallacy) x 10

 

You've attempted to support your narrative but cannot.  Why? It's Impossible.  I've asked you no less than 20 Specific Questions directly relating to your position; of which, you have answered exactly ZERO.

 

 

1.  Please show "Christ's Church"<---- Born Again Christians, in the Old Testament....?

 

2.  When was Israel Born.....?

 

3.  When was "The Church" Born......?

 

Is there a difference here:

 

4.  Born Again Christian and an Unbelieving Jew?

 

5.  The Old Testament (Covenant) and the New Testament (Covenant)?  Testament, as you know = Covenant

 

Between....

 

6.  (Revelation 7:4) "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

 

and these...

 

7.  (Revelation 7:9) "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

 

 

8.  Who is Christ's Wife/Bride....?

 

9.  Where is "She" in Revelation?

 

10.  In Revelation 19:11-16, who is Christ returning to Save Here?  Who is following HIM?

 

If you skip answering any of the questions here "directly", I'll take that tacitly as you can't, and end our discussion.

 

 

regards

 

 

I'm not going to get into all that with you when there is ample Scripture evidence I've already provided in other posts. You have made no... attempt at addressing the Scriptures I've already posted, but are only trying to start a debate on your 'own' terms, instead of actually addressing Scripture previously posted.

[Salty]

 

 

 

 

How can the Gospel be given sir.....when, Jesus wasn't born yet?

 

 

 

 

John 8

⁵⁶ Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.

⁵⁷ Then said the Jews unto him, "Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast Thou seen Abraham?"

⁵⁸ Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

 

 

 

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Jesus is GOD: HE is the I AM THAT I AM, The Beginning and The End.

 

The Gospel is....

 

(1 Corinthians 15:1-4) "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;  {2} By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.  {3} For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;  {4} And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

 

 

Jesus existed before the Gospel.  Not only that, HE existed before TIME and the Universe itself....HE Created Them.   But that's not what we're talking about here...I asked:

 

How can the Gospel be given sir.....when, Jesus wasn't born yet?

 

For The GOSPEL to exist.....the first Necessary Condition (out of 3 conditions) is that HE be BORN.

 

 

Your Response is a Strawman (Fallacy)

 

 

Is it not true that in the beginning was the Word and that Jesus was begotten on a specific day?  Isn't saying that Jesus existed before creation the same as saying that the fall of man was predestined?  I've heard this said before.  Not sure if it figures into this discussion.  Just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

 

 

 

 

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Is it not true that in the beginning was the Word and that Jesus was begotten on a specific day?

 

 

You're conflating Jesus as GOD (Existing in Eternity) and Jesus entering HIS Creation and becoming a MAN ..... being BORN.

 

 

Isn't saying that 1. Jesus existed before creation the same as saying that       2. the fall of man was predestined?

 

 

It's not the saying the same thing; however they are related.

 

It could be probably better said, since Jesus existed outside of HIS Creation (Eternity-----> Outside of Time) and could see the End from the Beginning; then this speaks to Predestination, Conceptually.  

 

 

How you forget simple Scripture evidence ike this:

 

Eph.1

³ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

⁴ According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:

⁵ Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

⁶ To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

 

Once again, HOW... did Abraham "see" Christ's day?

 

John 8

⁵⁶ Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.