Does God disapprove of philosophy?

[Willa]

My dad was saved as a teenager but when he went to college he abandoned his faith for the pride of philosophical debate.   He returned to the faith before he died.  That college even today has a philosophy class that warns the students that if they are still Christians at the end of his class, he will flunk them.  It teaches secular humanism as well.  My cousin's husband claimed that his classes taught him logic.  

But because of how my dad was corrupted by philosophy and the pride of reasoning, I have not wanted to even study these things.  He used to have me debate one side of an issue and then debate the other side.  I call it mental gymnastics.  Solomon would call it vanity..  

 

It is much more satisfying to walk with God.

[unworldly]

I think Colossians 2:8 is clearly warning Christians about possible dangers of secular philosophy.

[alphaparticle]

I think Colossians 2:8 is clearly warning Christians about possible dangers of secular philosophy.

 

I don't think so, since Paul was addressing a specific situation and I don't think it was secular philosophy. Take a look at the latter half of v 8 there "according to the elemental spirits  of the world, and not according to Christ". This suggests to me that the Colossians were being beguiled by a specific group and this isn't about studying analytic epistemological positions. Further on in v 16 he discusses the observance of holidays and Sabbaths, after talking about circumcision.

 

And then v 18-20

 

Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,fn puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God. If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations—

 

These verses are highly suggestive of some group promoting a very specific philosophy that involved ascetism, requiring the observation of certain holidays, and so forth, that Paul is speaking against. I am not saying that the warnings are not relevant to us, but that they aren't about studying analytic epistemology.

 

Aside from these verses, which I don't think could really be used against the modern philosophical tradition, I agree that ultimately acceptance of the gospel is going to be about faith and not being able to show it is correct through arguments. However, I also know from personal experience that philosophical arguments can be used by the Spirit to bring people to faith on occasion. That is, as a tool, they are neither at the outset good or bad, but perhaps it is more about how they are used and the outcome.

 

[Guest Teditis]

 

I always saw philosophy as simply the study of knowledge, reality and existence...

since all things are discussed in the Bible, I couldn't see why God would disapprove

of philosophy at it's fundamental level.

 

Do you know of any part of the Bible where philosophical reasoning (independent of christian faith) is encouraged?

 

 

Well my question is why would you be separating the two?

[unworldly]

 

 

I always saw philosophy as simply the study of knowledge, reality and existence...

since all things are discussed in the Bible, I couldn't see why God would disapprove

of philosophy at it's fundamental level.

 

Do you know of any part of the Bible where philosophical reasoning (independent of christian faith) is encouraged?

 

 

Well my question is why would you be separating the two?

 

 

well...it seems to me that the Bible intentionally makes a distinction between "human wisdom" and "Divine revelation" .

[Guest]

I think Colossians 2:8 is clearly warning Christians about possible dangers of secular philosophy.

I think you have made your thoughts clear. But, that doesn't invalidate the thoughts of others who may not agree with you.

[Guest Teditis]

 

 

 

I always saw philosophy as simply the study of knowledge, reality and existence...

since all things are discussed in the Bible, I couldn't see why God would disapprove

of philosophy at it's fundamental level.

 

Do you know of any part of the Bible where philosophical reasoning (independent of christian faith) is encouraged?

 

 

Well my question is why would you be separating the two?

 

 

well...it seems to me that the Bible intentionally makes a distinction between "human wisdom" and "Divine revelation" .

 

 

What does that have to do with Philosophy?

I misunderstanding... 

[unworldly]

Let's just forget the whole thing.

 

This thread shouldn't have been created in the first place.

 

it is based on very vague and ill-defined concepts.

 

I don't want to argue with anyone here.

 

You guys are by far much more knowledgeable than me.

[Cog]

I think it should be taken at face value: Do not let anyone use philosophy (reasoning and logic) to steer you away from God.

e.g. Someone might say the liars paradox proves that there is no truth and nothing is absolute. And they might show you superpositioning, or particle wave duality, or illusions of the senses, etc. and maybe they're deliberately doing it, or maybe they're not, but the outcome is the same: they have lead you away from God, if their reasoning is without God.

And that is not to say that philosophy, itself, is bad - that being logical and reasoning is bad - but rather any reasoning that leads you away from God, that is what is bad, and that is what is being warned against: man's vainity of mind.

Ephesians 4:17-32

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

27 Neither give place to the devil.

28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

But try to see the spirit of the above passage: Their understanding (philosophy, mind, thinking ability, reasoning skills) is corrupted. They speak their understanding for the sake of understanding - for the vanity of it (like philosophy and science often does) - not to build one another up in Christ, and not to better understand God, as our words should be - they do it for the sheer sake of understanding - the vanity and vein deceit of it.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Cog

[unworldly]

I think it should be taken at face value: Do not let anyone use philosophy (reasoning and logic) to steer you away from God.

e.g. Someone might say the liars paradox proves that there is no truth and nothing is absolute. And they might show you superpositioning, or particle wave duality, or illusions of the senses, etc. and maybe they're deliberately doing it, or maybe they're not, but the outcome is the same: they have lead you away from God, if their reasoning is without God.

And that is not to say that philosophy, itself, is bad - that being logical and reasoning is bad - but rather any reasoning that leads you away from God, that is what is bad, and that is what is being warned against: man's vainity of mind.

 

But try to see the spirit of the above passage: Their understanding (philosophy, mind, thinking ability, reasoning skills) is corrupted. They speak their understanding for the sake of understanding - for the vanity of it (like philosophy and science often does) - not to build one another up in Christ, and not to better understand God, as our words should be - they do it for the sheer sake of understanding - the vanity and vein deceit of it.

 

 

Looks like our views are compatible with each other.