Could we be living in the SEALS now?

[Spock]

The simple answer is "No." The Rapture has not occured yet.

That is right.We are not living in the seals now.

How can you be so sure? ISIS could easily represent the rider on the white horse or possibly even Putin. I'm not saying they do, but we will certainly find out soon enough. I believe the hour is much later than some people might think. Have you noticed all of the lawlessness going on in Washington lately? How about the economic conditions here and everywhere else in the world as well. This is not the same world I grew up in, not even close!

Hey RT,

Why can't Hitler be seal 1, and WW2 and the aftermath seal 2 and 3? Just curious.

[Sister]

 

Hey RT,

Why can't Hitler be seal 1, and WW2 and the aftermath seal 2 and 3? Just curious.

 

 

Hi Spock.

 

Good observation.

Yes there is no reason why the first two seals, even the third have not been opened already.

 

Paul speaking;

Acts 20:25   And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

Acts 20:28   Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Acts 20:29   For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Acts 20:30   Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

 

Following this, Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD,

then around 430 ad, the Roman church ermerged,  and using Christ's name, started the first worldwide christian religion, and spread it out to the gentiles on a global scale.  This is is how the masses heard of Christ, but not according to truth.  The rider has a bow which is a weapon of war, so Christ's name has not been preached in peace, although his name was used as a cover (wolves in sheeps clothing)

This would be the white horse.  The mother of christian religions according to Babylon.  Since her, many daughters have been born out of her (more christian religions born in Babylon, her roots and traditions are from her, the mother, and still with us today, eg christmas, easter, doctrines... )

 

The 2nd seal

 Revelation 6:4   And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

 

A great sword means this was a big war killing many, and the first and second world wars were great.  For us now its history, ....fulfilled, and because of those wars, world powers have shifted.

After this, the third seal, famine and disease.

This black horse has not finished riding yet, but will be completed when the world's economies collapse.  Unrest for a short time, and the next rider of the pale horse will introduce his new system, the Mark of the Beast.  Death and hell follows him as there's another war to come,

.....so the first two seals are already are passed, whilst the third seal was the effect, after the first and second world wars, but will worsen to affect all of us living today.  We are still in this black horse phase.

[Ezra]

Yes there is no reason why the first two seals, even the third have not been opened already.

 

As I pointed out earlier, the first five seals have already been open since 70 AD.  But people choose to believe whatever they choose.

[rollinTHUNDER]

The simple answer is "No." The Rapture has not occured yet.

That is right.We are not living in the seals now.

How can you be so sure? ISIS could easily represent the rider on the white horse or possibly even Putin. I'm not saying they do, but we will certainly find out soon enough. I believe the hour is much later than some people might think. Have you noticed all of the lawlessness going on in Washington lately? How about the economic conditions here and everywhere else in the world as well. This is not the same world I grew up in, not even close!

Hey RT,

Why can't Hitler be seal 1, and WW2 and the aftermath seal 2 and 3? Just curious.

I'm sure it probably looked that way some 80+ years ago, but it's too far from the end. Of course any large war could qualify seal 2's taking peace from the earth. But I think seal 3 is not compatible....when did they measure a qt. of wheat or 3 qts. of barley? I believe a global economic collapse will be the cause of the 3rd seal opening.

3rd seal opened - A black horse and rider with a pair of balances or scales, that weighs a measure of wheat for a penny, or three measures of barley for a penny.....I think one translation says this better, since this scripture was written during the time of the Roman Empire, it should say a measure of wheat for a denarius instead. The denarius was a days wages for the common man then. If they sold it for a penny that would make it so cheap, like just giving it away. I can't see that happening. However, if the economy collapses, hard times will be here immediately and no trucks or trains will be making deliveries. I could just imagine how the masses would hate this system so much that they would be begging for a better way to live. We don't know how long this will go on, but near the time of the end, that's when they will introduce the mark of the beast. And I suspect it will be voluntary at first, until a majority has taken it. Then those who don't have it will become the hunted.

How's that?

Cheers

[Spock]

Rt,

Not bad.

My musings- Half the people of the world are pretty poor. (Practically all of Africa and SE Asia which makes up one quarter of the worlds land mass.)

It seems to me the third seal is in full force now.

Maybe, maybe not.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Rt,

Not bad.

My musings- Half the people of the world are pretty poor. (Practically all of Africa and SE Asia which makes up one quarter of the worlds land mass.)

It seems to me the third seal is in full force now.

Maybe, maybe not.

We may be seeing the 1st seal now, but it's still too soon to tell. I'm thinking the economic collapse could also cause the 2nd seal. Free trade would be finished and it would be survival of the fittest. And we know a collapse will definitely play a part before the mark of the beast becomes law of the globe.

I'm just saying.

Cheers

[Sister]

 

Yes there is no reason why the first two seals, even the third have not been opened already.

 

As I pointed out earlier, the first five seals have already been open since 70 AD.  But people choose to believe whatever they choose.

 

Ezra,

 

I went back and looked at what you wrote;

 

Seal # 1 - rider on white horse = false Christs (Mt 24:5) -- many since 70 AD, latest Maitreya.

Seal # 2 - peace taken from the earth = constant warfare to this day (Mt 24:6,7), latest Islamist Jihad. [Most North Americans still have not grasped the fact that Radical Islam has declared, and is waging, war on the West, particularly "the Great Satan" (USA)].

Seal # 3 - famine = famines (Mt 24:7). This has been ongoing, lastest  "Immediate Help Needed in the Horn of Africa Famine Crisis".

Seal # 4 - death (and Hell) from wars, famines, pestilences (wild beasts included) (Mt 24:7) -- this has been ongoing - latest Ebola

Seal # 5 - Christian martyrs = "they shall kill you" (Mt 24:9). This too has been ongoing, latest by ISIS, China, N, Korea, Russia, etc.

 

The 6th and 7th seals are yet future, and the trigger will be the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation (Mt 24:15).

 

 

Hi Ezra

 

Good points there.

 

This is how I see it;

 

1st Seal

The name of Christ did not go out into all the earth until the Romans through Constantine formed an official religion.

Christianity, was about to change.  It would now be according to new traditions and rituals invented with a certain doctrine to be followed.  The Roman religion was born.

Bibles were not available for man to read and seek for himself, therefore this Roman religion could dictate it's terms of worship and set a standard for doctrine.

Although Jesus said many false Christ's would arise, this Roman religion did not pose itself as being Christ, but came "in Christ's name".  They used his name only and borrowed a few scriptures.

 

 Matthew 24:5   For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

 

When we read this quickly, we perceive that many will come saying "they" are Christ. .... Imposters. ...this is how most people read it.  How I read it at first.

but then when you come back to it, say many years later, and look at the verse with fresh eyes, you can see the real meaning hidden in there;

These many that come, state that Christ is who he says he is.  All the christian religions "confess Christ".  These deceivers are confessing Christ, admitting he is the Christ.  Wolves in sheeps clothing.

 

 

Revelation 6:2   And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

 

A bow is a weapon of war, and he conquers (territories) imposing his religion on them.  His crown means he has authority.  It's a spiritual conquering.  A birth of a new belief and not according to the truth.  Today it is still the largest christian religion.

 

I believe this is the white horse which started with the Romans on a large scale.  The start of something big that continues to the end through all her daughters that came out of her. 

 

 

2nd Seal

Revelation 6:4   And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

 

A great sword, means a great war.  The 1st and 2nd world wars were the most terrible of wars, on the largest scale.  As you said, wars continue, and this horse keeps riding to the end, but I believe this seal is referring to those 2 wars, and not any war before them.

 

So the fulfilment of the 1st and 2nd seals starting have passed.

 

3rd Seal

This happened after the 1st and 2nd world wars, and will continue until it's global.  Famine and disease.

 

 

4th Seal

 

Revelation 6:8   And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

This would be the end time beast that produces the false prophet.  Although Christians are being persecuted for their faith even now, and will be rewarded, it's not the big big test to come that will come upon the whole christian world ...the Mark of the Beast.  Without this new system, no one can trade.  It says;

 

Revelation 13:16   And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

 

So I believe we are still in the 3rd seal but it has to get worse before this stage is completed, ...it hasn't affected you and I yet, but we know it's coming,

and the fourth seal (pale horse) has not come yet either to enforce it's power (although they are working behind the scenes), they have not made themselves official, with their new laws for the world to follow, or with their leader who has yet to emerge out of them, the false prophet.

 

What do you think?

[ARGOSY]

 

 

Yes there is no reason why the first two seals, even the third have not been opened already.

 

As I pointed out earlier, the first five seals have already been open since 70 AD.  But people choose to believe whatever they choose.

 

Ezra,

 

I went back and looked at what you wrote;

 

Seal # 1 - rider on white horse = false Christs (Mt 24:5) -- many since 70 AD, latest Maitreya.

Seal # 2 - peace taken from the earth = constant warfare to this day (Mt 24:6,7), latest Islamist Jihad. [Most North Americans still have not grasped the fact that Radical Islam has declared, and is waging, war on the West, particularly "the Great Satan" (USA)].

Seal # 3 - famine = famines (Mt 24:7). This has been ongoing, lastest  "Immediate Help Needed in the Horn of Africa Famine Crisis".

Seal # 4 - death (and Hell) from wars, famines, pestilences (wild beasts included) (Mt 24:7) -- this has been ongoing - latest Ebola

Seal # 5 - Christian martyrs = "they shall kill you" (Mt 24:9). This too has been ongoing, latest by ISIS, China, N, Korea, Russia, etc.

 

The 6th and 7th seals are yet future, and the trigger will be the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation (Mt 24:15).

 

 

Hi Ezra

 

Good points there.

 

This is how I see it;

 

1st Seal

The name of Christ did not go out into all the earth until the Romans through Constantine formed an official religion.

Christianity, was about to change.  It would now be according to new traditions and rituals invented with a certain doctrine to be followed.  The Roman religion was born.

Bibles were not available for man to read and seek for himself, therefore this Roman religion could dictate it's terms of worship and set a standard for doctrine.

Although Jesus said many false Christ's would arise, this Roman religion did not pose itself as being Christ, but came "in Christ's name".  They used his name only and borrowed a few scriptures.

 

 Matthew 24:5   For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

 

When we read this quickly, we perceive that many will come saying "they" are Christ. .... Imposters. ...this is how most people read it.  How I read it at first.

but then when you come back to it, say many years later, and look at the verse with fresh eyes, you can see the real meaning hidden in there;

These many that come, state that Christ is who he says he is.  All the christian religions "confess Christ".  These deceivers are confessing Christ, admitting he is the Christ.  Wolves in sheeps clothing.

 

 

Revelation 6:2   And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

 

A bow is a weapon of war, and he conquers (territories) imposing his religion on them.  His crown means he has authority.  It's a spiritual conquering.  A birth of a new belief and not according to the truth.  Today it is still the largest christian religion.

 

I believe this is the white horse which started with the Romans on a large scale.  The start of something big that continues to the end through all her daughters that came out of her. 

 

 

2nd Seal

Revelation 6:4   And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

 

A great sword, means a great war.  The 1st and 2nd world wars were the most terrible of wars, on the largest scale.  As you said, wars continue, and this horse keeps riding to the end, but I believe this seal is referring to those 2 wars, and not any war before them.

 

So the fulfilment of the 1st and 2nd seals starting have passed.

 

3rd Seal

This happened after the 1st and 2nd world wars, and will continue until it's global.  Famine and disease.

 

 

4th Seal

 

Revelation 6:8   And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

This would be the end time beast that produces the false prophet.  Although Christians are being persecuted for their faith even now, and will be rewarded, it's not the big big test to come that will come upon the whole christian world ...the Mark of the Beast.  Without this new system, no one can trade.  It says;

 

Revelation 13:16   And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

 

So I believe we are still in the 3rd seal but it has to get worse before this stage is completed, ...it hasn't affected you and I yet, but we know it's coming,

and the fourth seal (pale horse) has not come yet either to enforce it's power (although they are working behind the scenes), they have not made themselves official, with their new laws for the world to follow, or with their leader who has yet to emerge out of them, the false prophet.

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

Let's adjust your view slightly, often the bible uses the worlds own symbols (ie Lebanon always had the Cedar tree, Babylon had the lion. The bible uses these symbols to describe them)

 

First seal... Rome/Papal Europe...   bent on conquering Israel. finally succeeds in 1917.  Symbol of Crusaders =  WHITE HORSE

 

Second seal....   Communism....   brought war to earth. Attempts to control the Middle East. From 1917 (Bolshevik Revolution) until 1989 (fall of Berlin wall.   Symbol of communism= RED

 

Third seal .......  Banking: western financial Imperialism.  Jewish bankers control western governments and cause them to invade the Middle East. This started in the Gulf war of 1990 and continues until today.   Through their policies since 1990 we have the increasing wealth gap where the poor battle for a living wage, but the wealthy get even wealthier. don't touch their oil and wine.  Symbol of banking originally =  BLACK HORSE.... this symbol is still seen in Lloyds.  

 

Fourth seal ... pale green horse.  Symbol of Islam.

[Ezra]

Sister,

 

When we are attempting to apply prophecy to history, we need to be careful not to get too specific, since the prophecies themselves are "broad strokes" when it comes to the Olivet Discourse and the first five seals.

 

 

So I believe we are still in the 3rd seal but it has to get worse before this stage is completed, ...it hasn't affected you and I yet, but we know it's coming,

 

The third seal rider on the black horse with scales in his hands clearly symbolizes famine or severe scarcity of food (since a day's wages would feed only about 3 people).  Food shortages have been evident throughout the world (even during Paul's day) and exist at present.

 

and the fourth seal (pale horse) has not come yet either to enforce it's power (although they are working behind the scenes), they have not made themselves official, with their new laws for the world to follow, or with their leader who has yet to emerge out of them, the false prophet.

 

I don't see how you get this meaning out of the 4th seal. Death and Hell (Hades) are personified (Death sitting on a pale horse, possibly to symbolize loss of blood), but since death is mentioned again, there must be a deeper meaning to "Death and Hell" together.  Hades is presently the abode of the unregenerate awaiting their final judgment and then Hell (the Lake of Fire).  Therefore, in my opinion "Death and Hell" together stand for eternal damnation.  Notice that one fourth of the earth's population will be wiped out through warfare, famine, death, and wild beasts. This has probably already been accomplished and many souls have gone to Hell.

 

Because the martyrdom of Christians began almost immediately after Pentecost, and continues to this day, we can safely say that the 5th seal has been operational since day one.  Only the 6th and 7th seals are yet future.

[Sister]

Greetings Argosy,

 

 

First seal... Rome/Papal Europe...   bent on conquering Israel. finally succeeds in 1917.  Symbol of Crusaders =  WHITE HORSE

 

 

 

Yes I agree, it's the symbol of the Crusaders.  But I can't see it referring to the conquering of Israel?, After 70Ad, Jerusalem completely conquered spiritually for rejecting their Messiah,....They had been given time to reflect, and space to change, but they made their choice.

 

.....But to the rest of the gentile world who are about to hear Christ's name for the first time, ...knowing nothing,  were first introduced to a Christ according to the way the Romans saw him.  That seed planted for them was not the correct foundation,...Rome were not supposed to be the mediator between men and God,...... but never the less, Christ name is introduced and many become familiar with his name only and some gospel stories.  Christ's name starts being spread, and this was the groundwork for what lay ahead.....many other Christian religions will offshoot from this first one....and it still keeps going until now.  Satan has his purpose, but God will turn it around for his advantage.

 

So really my main point is that the rider on the White horse was an attempt by Satan to get in first by using an imitation holy figure to indoctrinate the gentiles with a weak foundation made on sand.  I'm sure you know all this, but bent on conquering Israel, I can't see it like that brother.

 

 

Second seal....   Communism....   brought war to earth. Attempts to control the Middle East. From 1917 (Bolshevik Revolution) until 1989 (fall of Berlin wall.   Symbol of communism= RED

 

 

I'm not sure how it started exactly, but thanks for that info.  I will look into it. I see red as the color of war, ...blood. I copied and pasted this, to show the many powers involved.  This gives us an indication of how big these two wars were. "A great sword" ....kills many Countries Involved in World War I

 

Over twenty-seven countries were mentioned as the Allied and Associated Powers in the Treaty of Versailles. World War I, however, was truly global in its outreach because colonies of European nations also went to war.

Austria-Hungary : Austria-Hungary initiated World War I by declaring war on Serbia in July 1914.

Belgium : Though initially neutral, Belgium joined World War I to offer stiff resistance against German invasion.

Brazil : Brazil joined World War I in 1917 on the side of the Allies, and was the only Latin American country to participate in the Great War.

British Empire : Britain and British colonies including Australia, Canada, India, and New Zealand formed part of the Allied camp. The spread of the British colonies across the globe brought World War I to Africa and Asia.

Bulgaria : The Kingdom of Bulgaria joined the Central Powers in 1915 and fought until September 1918.

China : China entered World War I in 1917 following U.S. entry into the war.

France and Colonies : One of the major Allied nations, France declared war with the German declaration of war against France on August 3, 1914.

German Empire : Germany was a major Central Power. Austria-Hungary’s declaration of war was heavily influenced by Germany’s assurance of support.

Greece : Following the U.S. entry into World War I, Greece entered the war on the side of the Allies on June 27, 1917.

Italy : Initially reluctant to join the war despite an alliance with Germany and Austria-Hungary, Italy sided with the allies in 1915.

Japan : Japan's entry into World War I in August 1914 followed Britain's request to combat raids of the Kaiserliche Marine (German Imperial Navy).

Liberia : Liberian trade was adversely affected by World War I, and the country joined the Allied Powers in 1917.

Montenegro : Linked closely with Serbia, Montenegro joined the Allied cause in August 1914.

Ottoman Empire : The Ottoman Empire joined World War I in November 1914, on the side of the Central Powers, due to its close ties with Germany.

Portugal : Despite the rivalry between Portugal and Germany, Portugal remained neutral until March 1915, when Germany declared war. Portugal then joined the Allies.

Romania : Romania joined the Allies in August 1916.

Russia : Russia, along with Britain and France, was one of the major Allied Powers, and first among the nations to mobilize troops against Germany.

Serbia : The outbreak of World War I was triggered by the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary in Sarajevo, Serbia. Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia in July 1914.

United States of America: The United States declared neutrality in 1914. In 1917, the United States associated with the Allied nations thereby changing the course of World War I.

Other countries such as Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, San Marino, and Siam were also involved in the Great War.

 

Countries involved in world war 2

copied from Encyclopedia Britannica.

 

World War II, also called Second World War, conflict that involved virtually every part of the world during the years 1939–45. The principal belligerents were the Axis powers—Germany, Italy, and Japan—and the Allies—France, Great Britain, the United States, the Soviet Union, and, to a lesser extent, China.

 

Third seal .......  Banking: western financial Imperialism.  Jewish bankers control western governments and cause them to invade the Middle East. This started in the Gulf war of 1990 and continues until today.   Through their policies since 1990 we have the increasing wealth gap where the poor battle for a living wage, but the wealthy get even wealthier. don't touch their oil and wine.  Symbol of banking originally =  BLACK HORSE.... this symbol is still seen in Lloyds.  

 

 

Agreed, agreed they are the cause.

I didn't know that Lloyd's used the black horse as a symbol.  That's interesting. 

I see black as the world being in darkness.

 

Fourth seal ... pale green horse.  Symbol of Islam.

 

 

I don't see this brother, I see the man of Perdition and his beast riding that pale horse.  Because of them death, and hunger to the world.  We know because of this last empire, it results to the saints being persecuted, all nations conquered, through his Mark, and all this death starts on the saints then leads up to the 3rd www.

 

I can't see how Islam is riding this pale horse?, death to the world is not caused by Islam, but the Son of Perdition.  He's the man to watch out for, him and his beast.  Unless you are saying that the beast is Islam?

I see Islam just used as pawns in the grand scheme of things, to make way for new laws...more control over us.

I see the extremists as guns for hire, hired by the 10 kings, ...their plan, ...divide and conquer.  Ruin a nation so that the West can come in and stabilise with armed forces and the federal bankers  giving assistance (with interest of course), knowing it can never be paid back, ....but the purpose, taking for themselves even more territories to control politically.  But the policy for these nations remains in chaos, not order. 

They never really fix up these nations they connive to destroy . And with all their resources and power,  they seem to leave them to waste.

 

 

I'm not trying to argue with you brother, these are just my views, ...how I see it through my eyes..   I appreciate your input,  I'm just giving mine.

God bless.