The New Jerusalem.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom and chag sameach, Marilyn C. and Ezra.

 

I’m sorry to be the one required to tell you this, but compounding the number of types and symbolism you see (or THINK you see) in the Scriptures, even regarding this structure called the “New Jerusalem,” is NOT “going deeper!” If you truly desire to “go deeper” in Scriptural matters, learn detailed information of what you are reading!

Learn and know the difference between “preach” (keerussoo) and “preach” (euaggellizo) and when each was used!

Learn the difference between “but” (de) and “but” (alla) and when each was used!

Learn the difference between “LORD” (YHWH) and “Lord” (Adonay) and when each was used!

Learn the difference between “love” (agapee) and “love” (phileoo) and when each was used! 

.....

 

There’s MUCH to know about what you are reading to be SURE that what you THINK you are reading is actually what was WRITTEN! People today make many assumptions about what they are reading that is just SO far off from what was written that it isn’t even funny!

And then, they compound this error by adjusting their theology to these assumptions!

AND THEN, they compound this error further by TEACHING this ... garbage ... to others as though it was the truth of Scripture!

 

You know what will be rich? It’ll be sitting down with Yeshua` (if He takes the time to do so) and telling HIM what you see in the Scriptures! After He’s stopped laughing, He might say, “Y’know, I never saw that before! Of course, it’s total fiction and hogwash, but ... hey ... it’s fascinating to see how you think!” Then, He’ll probably call over one of His students to straighten you out.

 

Sometimes, our theories and ideas in theological matters paint an image in our mind of what Yeshua` was like that doesn’t ring true when compared to His biographies. For instance, does your image of the Messiah easily fit with this passage?

 

Matthew 19:16-17

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

KJV

 

Mark 10:17-18

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

KJV

 

Luke 18:18-19

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

KJV

 

What about Yeshua`s explanation to the Yhudiym (Jews) about His claim to be the “Son of God?"

 

John 10:24-40

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

40 And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.

KJV

 

Why would Yeshua` have to pray to God if they are one and the same? Wouldn’t God know what Yeshua` was thinking (as we claim He knows each of our thoughts, as well)?

 

Matthew 14:23

23 And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.

KJV

 

Matthew 19:13-15

13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.

14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

KJV

 

Matthew 26:36-44

36 Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

37 And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

38 Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

43 And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.

44 And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.

KJV

 

Mark 1:35

35 And in the morning, rising up a great while before day, he went out, and departed into a solitary place, and there prayed.

KJV

 

Mark 6:46

46 And when he had sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray.

KJV

 

Mark 14:32-41

32 And they came to a place which was named Gethsemane: and he saith to his disciples, Sit ye here, while I shall pray.

33 And he taketh with him Peter and James and John, and began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy;

34 And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.

35 And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.

36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

37 And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?

38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

39 And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words.

40 And when he returned, he found them asleep again, (for their eyes were heavy,) neither wist they what to answer him.

41 And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

KJV

 

Luke 5:16

16 And he withdrew himself into the wilderness, and prayed.

KJV

 

Luke 6:12

12 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.

KJV

 

Luke 9:28-29

28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

KJV

 

Luke 22:31-32

31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

KJV

 

Luke 22:39-46

39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.

40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.

41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,

46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

KJV

 

John 14:16-17

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

KJV

 

And of course, John recorded for us His rather lengthy prayer in John 17. Therefore, I say, learn to know the difference between being identical with the Father and being ONE with the Father!

 

John 17:11

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

KJV

 

John 17:20-23

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

KJV

 

To “go deep” in Scripture, one MUST be on the same page with God regarding His Scriptures!

[Guest]

He is the eternal High Priest with the magnificent gems of eternal qualities that ever glisten & shine through endless ages.

 

 

Pretty Much

 

'If you make an altar of stone for Me, you shall not build it of cut stones, for if you wield your tool on it, you will profane it. Exodus 20:25 (NASB)

 

Jesus

 

And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:4-5 (NASB)

 

And Us

 

Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Malachi 3:16-17 (NASB)

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

 

Since you`re speaking from the record of what Jesus said to Israel, here is a very good scripture we all can take note of.

 

`Then He said to them, O fools & slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: ought not Christ to have suffered these things & to enter into His glory? And beginning at Moses & all the prophets, He expounded to them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.` (Luke 24: 25 - 27)

 

O to sit at His feet & hear Him expound on His word concerning Himself. Nothing deeper, Retro.

 

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Fresno Joe,

 

Thank you for your uplifting comments. They are always appreciated, although not always commented on. May God continue to give you those words from His word, to refresh our hearts & guide us to Him.

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn C.

 

Hi Retrobyter,

 

Since you`re speaking from the record of what Jesus said to Israel, here is a very good scripture we all can take note of.

 

`Then He said to them, O fools & slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: ought not Christ to have suffered these things & to enter into His glory? And beginning at Moses & all the prophets, He expounded to them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.` (Luke 24: 25 - 27)

 

O to sit at His feet & hear Him expound on His word concerning Himself. Nothing deeper, Retro.

 

Marilyn.

 

You DO know that He was talking to a couple of His disciples AFTER His Resurrection, don’t you? These were two of the very men that you claim became the first leaders of the “church” at Jerusalem!

 

Now, what does it mean for Yeshua` to “enter into His glory?” Hint: It does NOT mean to "enter into Heaven!” It’s just as “`Christ.....bringing many sons to glory....` (Heb. 2: 10)” does NOT mean that the Messiah is "bringing many sons to Heaven!” One must understand what “heaven” means, what “glory” means, and what the “third heaven” is!

 

First of all, “heaven” means “the sky.” Consider Matthew 16:1-4:

 

Matthew 16:1-4

1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven (Greek: ek tou ouranou).

2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky (Greek: ho ouranos) is red.

3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky (Greek: ho ouranos) is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky (Greek: tou ouranou); but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

KJV

 

He didn’t deny them a sign from the sky; He just didn’t give them what they expected! He gave them WEATHER WISDOM instead! “Red sky at night, a sailor’s delight; red sky at morning, sailors take warning!” He told them that they didn’t want a sign from “heaven”; they wanted a sign of the “times!” Then, He told them they didn’t need any more signs than that of the prophet Yonah (Jonah). And, that sign was stated in Matthew 12:40:

 

Matthew 12:38-41

38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

KJV

 

Did you know that the word translated “heaven” in verse 16:1 is EXACTLY THE SAME GREEK WORD as in verses 2 and 3 translated as “sky?” Investigate it sometime, but how many English translations of the Bible reveal that fact?

 

How often have you heard, “The first heaven is “of clouds,” the second heaven is “of stars,” and the third heaven is “God’s abode?” I don’t know who started this, but I do know that it was propagated for years by the Scofield Edition of the King James Version. On page 1238, in the center margin on that page, he states this WITHOUT A BIBLE REFERENCE! This is a SPATIAL interpretation of “third heaven,” found in 2 Corinthians 12:2:

 

2 Corinthians 12:1-4

1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven (Greek: tritou ouranou).

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

KJV

 

However, there is a BETTER interpretation of this “third heaven” - a CHRONOLOGICAL interpretation - BY PETER!

 

2 Peter 3:3-13

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens (first heavens) were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water (the FLOOD), perished:

7 But the heavens (second heavens) and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men (the FIRE).

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens (third heavens) and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

KJV

 

So, Peter said that Paul’s “third heaven” was “the sky” above the NEW EARTH! I’ll talk about “glory” later, but if you’d like to search it out for yourself, go to the Resurrection chapter and read 1 Corinthians 15:39-43.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,
 
I`m not sure where you got this idea from - (Retro said-
 

You DO know that He was talking to a couple of His disciples AFTER His Resurrection, don’t you? These were two of the very men that you claim became the first leaders of the “church” at Jerusalem!

Where did I claim that?

 

Also in the future I would like to do a topic on the 3 realms. Perhaps we could leave our discussion till then.

 

Marilyn. 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn C.

 

Hi Retrobyter,
 
I`m not sure where you got this idea from - (Retro said-
 

You DO know that He was talking to a couple of His disciples AFTER His Resurrection, don’t you? These were two of the very men that you claim became the first leaders of the “church” at Jerusalem!

Where did I claim that?

 

Also in the future I would like to do a topic on the 3 realms. Perhaps we could leave our discussion till then.

 

Marilyn. 

 

Sorry to give you the impression that I was speaking of you (singular) claiming these men as leaders of the "church"; I was speaking of “you” (plural), as in most Christians, making such a claim.

 

Luke 24:1-35

1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:

5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

8 And they remembered his words,

9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.

10 It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.

11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.

12 Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.

13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.

14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass therein these days?

19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;

23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.

29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.

30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.

31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,

34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.

35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.

KJV

 

Since, Yeshua` had not yet appeared to Shim`own Kefa (Simon Peter), this must have been the other of the two “Simons” in verse 34:

 

Luke 6:13-16

13 And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

14 Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,

15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,

16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.

KJV

 

So, these two who had gone to “Emmaus” were Cleopas and Simon called Zelotes.

 

 

Now, we could table this “topic on the three realms” to later, but by then, damage will have been done in this topic because of an imperfect understanding of the “three realms,” as you say. Table it if you wish, but know this: The conclusions that you draw in this topic will need to be revisited.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retrobyter,

 

I look forward to discussing with you, on another thread, this interesting & important topic of the three realms & how they fit into God`s eternal purposes.

 

Marilyn.