Rev. 7's great multitude before the throne

[WilliamL]

Be dressed in readiness, and keep your lamps lit.  Be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding feast, so that they may immediately open the door to him when he comes and knocks. Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.  Luke 12:35-37

 

Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.  Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent. For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.  But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’  Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.The foolish said to the prudent, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’  But the prudent answered, ‘No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.’  And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.  Later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open up for us.’  But he answered, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’  Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.  Matthew 25:1-13

 

Both of these refer to the coming of the day of the Lord which comes like a thief in the night, right after the armies gather together for the battle of Armageddon, as I pointed out earlier.  The Lord only comes like a thief once.  Nothing anywhere indicates otherwise.

 

So you say. And I say that the boldface portions of the above two prophecies clearly indicate that these are two entirely different events. And with that, I'm perfectly happy to let each browser of this string decide for themselves which view makes most sense to them.

Edited March 1, 2015 by WilliamL

[Serving]

Here is the complete picture of the 7 angels receiving the trumps & vials event found within two chapters .. and when linked together, the true picture emerges. (yes this is my very own interpretation but I believe it to be correct)

 

 

 

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 

Rev 15:5 And after that i looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

 

Rev 8:2 And i saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

 

Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angels hand.

 

Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

 

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

 

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

 

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, til the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

 

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

 

Note:

 

The 7 vials are golden just like the golden altar which is only found standing before the throne of God .. a clear relationship here.

 

Remembering that those 7 golden vials are filled with the wrath of God .. notice the smoke mixed with the prayers of the saints came out of the censer which the angel cast to the earth .. yet the smoke which was mixed with the prayers of ALL the saints was still ascending up towards God .. thus these prayers themselves were not yet answered since they were still before God .. remembering that is was only the censer which was cast to the earth.

 

So what of the prayers (smoke) which was still before God?

 

When will they be officially answered as God promised to do?

 

I say that the 7 golden vials themselves are filled with the actual smoke mixed with the prayers of ALL the saints from the golden altar .. this wrath is where God fulfils His promise to avenge His saints found throughout the scriptures, notably also within the 5th seal and Rev 18:20-24.

 

Also notice the smoke (mixed with prayers of ALL the saints) is "released" at the same time that the 7 angels are in the temple receiving their trumpets .. and it is only when they exit the Temple that they receive the 7 golden vials?

 

This is beyond doubt to me, this is speaking of the same event .. the 7 angels have a trumpet and a vial each is the picture being shown here.

 

Since I have no church doctrine to protect, nor desire to make proselytes or make myself a teacher, by default then, this is an honest evaluation with no hidden agenda which I hope will at least likewise be looked into with open minds free of men's agendas.

 

God bless.

[Last Daze]

Here is the complete picture of the 7 angels receiving the trumps & vials event found within two chapters .. and when linked together, the true picture emerges. (yes this is my very own interpretation but I believe it to be correct)

 

 

 

Rev 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 

Rev 15:5 And after that i looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

 

Rev 8:2 And i saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

 

Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angels hand.

 

Rev 8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

 

Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

 

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

 

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, til the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

 

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

 

 

Note:

 

The 7 vials are golden just like the golden altar which is only found standing before the throne of God .. a clear relationship here.

 

Remembering that those 7 golden vials are filled with the wrath of God .. notice the smoke mixed with the prayers of the saints came out of the censer which the angel cast to the earth .. yet the smoke which was mixed with the prayers of ALL the saints was still ascending up towards God .. thus these prayers themselves were not yet answered since they were still before God .. remembering that is was only the censer which was cast to the earth.

 

So what of the prayers (smoke) which was still before God?

 

When will they be officially answered as God promised to do?

 

I say that the 7 golden vials themselves are filled with the actual smoke mixed with the prayers of ALL the saints from the golden altar .. this wrath is where God fulfils His promise to avenge His saints found throughout the scriptures, notably also within the 5th seal and Rev 18:20-24.

 

Also notice the smoke (mixed with prayers of ALL the saints) is "released" at the same time that the 7 angels are in the temple receiving their trumpets .. and it is only when they exit the Temple that they receive the 7 golden vials?

 

This is beyond doubt to me, this is speaking of the same event .. the 7 angels have a trumpet and a vial each is the picture being shown here.

 

Since I have no church doctrine to protect, nor desire to make proselytes or make myself a teacher, by default then, this is an honest evaluation with no hidden agenda which I hope will at least likewise be looked into with open minds free of men's agendas.

 

God bless.

 

Makes sense to me.  I think the correlation between the trumpets and vials is undeniable if looked at with an open mind.  That they come from the same seven plague angels fits right in.

[Watching for Jesus]

Hi Serving,

 

I agree with your theory.

 

I am going to post a new topic "Revelation 16, I come as a thief" to show why I believe Jesus comes as a thief between the 6th and 7th vials.  It ties in with the 7 angels theory.

 

Jeff

Edited March 6, 2015 by Watching for Jesus

[Spock]

On January 29, 2015 at 1:16 PM, WilliamL said:

Rev. 7:9 NKJV After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands... 13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” 14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them."

 

1) Who are these people?

2) Why does this passage come after the 6th Seal, and before the 7th Seal?

William,

let me in this thread. I don't usually answer difficult prophecy questions with boldness because God has not seen fit to give me all the answers I desperately desire. Probably because I have had a major pride issue that God is dealing with, but I believe God has opened my eyes on this one.

who are these people? 

They are none other than the RAPTURED SAINTS! This is the rapture folks, right after seal six and before God unleashes his WRATH, like he promised in Thessalonians. Let me say this again- the true church, not just church goers, will not be around to experience the trumpet or bowl judgments of God. This is WRATH and we are not meant for that. 

Israel is though- the time of Jacobs trouble. The 144,000 remnant will be protected but Israel still has to be chastised for not trusting the living God and trusting in man and their traditions instead. 

Personal plea: don't believe the Hal Lindsey pre trib jargon who want and need for you to believe these are tribulation "saints" after the rapture. They made that up to support their faulty agenda that the rapture occurs before mans wrath, in the form of the seals, is unleashed.  I really believe this is not biblical and needs to be seriously studied again if you believe such.  God promised us we would escape HIS WRATH not mans wrath. My proof- look at history. Christians have been slaughtered since day one. That is man's wrath against Christ and his church. 

Disclaimer: I may have come across to bold here so I apologize to my friends and brothers and sisters in Christ, especially Marv, peep, Ezra, and MG.. 

A confident Spock on this one

[WilliamL]

10 hours ago, Spock said:

They are none other than the RAPTURED SAINTS! This is the rapture folks, right after seal six and before God unleashes his WRATH, like he promised in Thessalonians. Let me say this again- the true church, not just church goers, will not be around to experience the trumpet or bowl judgments of God. This is WRATH and we are not meant for that. 

Israel is though- the time of Jacobs trouble. The 144,000 remnant will be protected but Israel still has to be chastised for not trusting the living God and trusting in man and their traditions instead. 

Well summed up, Spock.

[Spock]

Thank you, William.

you have helped me sort out a lot of questions I have had. For instance, up until now, I assumed the great tribulation = God's wrath.

i no longer feel that is true (it might be, but I don't think so any longer)

christians have always gone through tribulation since day one. So what is different about  the GT that requires escaping? Nothing really. Tribulation is man's/satans wrath which has always been here and as everyone knows, Christians have had to endure.

so, basically, are the SEALS the GT?  I think so, and we will be here to endure with His protection, wisdom, guidance, and strength.  This is new thinking for me so I am still processing this, but I now am aware of the difference between wrath and tribulation, even great tribulation.  

I know this may not be received easily by some who believe they have a ticket out of here before the bullets fly, but my plea to everyone here who is in doubt- pray the Luke 21:36 verse daily, consider its meaning,  and stay close to God in his word and his love. 

In  love,

spock

disclaimer: I am not holding myself out as the AUTHORITY on bible interpretation. The above may not be right, but it is now what I believe and am urging you to consider. 

 

[WilliamL]

3 minutes ago, Spock said:

...so, basically, are the SEALS the GT?  I think so, and we will be here to endure with His protection, wisdom, guidance, and strength.  This is new thinking for me so I am still processing this, but I now am aware of the difference between wrath and tribulation, even great tribulation.  

I know this may not be received easily by some who believe they have a ticket out of here before the bullets fly, but my plea to everyone here who is in doubt- pray the Luke 21:36 verse daily, consider its meaning,  and stay close to God in his word and his love.

Re: your question, the GT are the first five seals. The 6th Seal's shakings of heaven and earth come, as Jesus tells us in Matt. 24:29, "immediately after the tribulation of those days..." Of course, by that time the earth will have become a very unhealthy and dangerous place; but those who have escaped will at least have a reprieve from the worst of the nastiness. Those who have not escaped, however, -- like as the Egyptians and other mixed multitudes who never left Egypt in the Exodus -- will still be in deep doo-doo.

Your second paragraph is wise counsel, therefore.

[Spock]

William,

man, I feel like I just had a breakthrough in understanding the timing of end times events....THANKS TO YOU BROTHER!

It is all coming together for me. For example:

a. Rev 13:7 says "it was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them." 

Spock: the beast has this power to prevail even against us, like he has done for 2000 years may I add. But God tells us later in Rev 13 to persevere.....

this goes along with Matt 24:9 which says....

"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

spock: again it says believers will be persecuted and even put to death and hated by all nations. So put these two passages together and each say the same thing- the AC beast will mess with and prevail over some believers during his time to shine.

so when is his time to shine? This is where William REALLY opened my eyes to see the answer. His time to shine is In my opinion the first 3.5 years of Damiels last week. And guess what this time period is called?

THE GREAT TRIBULATION!! Yes, the GT is before the abomination of desolation, not after it. And guess what?  The church WILL see the abomination. In fact, Jesus himself said we would in Matthew 24:15. When you see the AoD....."

i know some want to believe Jesus is only talking about Jews. Don't believe it friends. 

To recap: God has not promised us deliverance from tribulation, only wrath. The GT is not wrath. The rapture occurs after the 6th seal and you can see it clearly in Rev 7:9-17- these are the people who come out of where ? The GREAT TRIBULATION!  Bingo!

i could go on, but I'm probably just talking to William here. 

Spock is on fire.........

[rollinTHUNDER]

9 hours ago, Spock said:

THE GREAT TRIBULATION!! Yes, the GT is before the abomination of desolation, not after it. And guess what?  The church WILL see the abomination. In fact, Jesus himself said we would in Matthew 24:15. When you see the AoD....."

i know some want to believe Jesus is only talking about Jews. Don't believe it friends. 

To recap: God has not promised us deliverance from tribulation, only wrath. The GT is not wrath. The rapture occurs after the 6th seal and you can see it clearly in Rev 7:9-17- these are the people who come out of where ? The GREAT TRIBULATION!  Bingo!

i could go on, but I'm probably just talking to William here. 

Spock is on fire.........

Lol - You're always changing your position, brother.  But at least you're searching. 
The GT is after the AoD.  Read Matt. 24:15, then 24:21-22.

Hold that thought on the rest.  I'm working on Rev. 6 again, as I finally found my missing pieces.  I'll let you know when I finish my breakdown.

 

 

Cheers