Alex Summers Posted March 16, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 225 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/19/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/29/1984 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Well Shiloh, we have now established there will be no death in the new world. Of course nobody has said anything different so I am not sure why we needed to do it again. The topic of discussion is the world prior to the first sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Yes, but the point that was being made is that we can see what the original creation in regard to what its relationship to death was like prior to sin, by examining what the world will be like when sin no longer exists. We see that the eradication of sin is also the eradication of death. So, it follows that prior to sin in the original creation, there was no death. The Bible makes it clear that sin and death came into the original creation by means of Adam's rebellion. That has also been established without controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 The topic of discussion is the world prior to the first sin. And Beloved, And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31 The Answer But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22 ~ Believe In Him Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24 And Be Blessed Beloved Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saved34 Posted March 17, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,185 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 667 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/28/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1971 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Of course God did not create sin, but the possibility for sin was very present or Man would have never disobeyed God. God is not trying to restore us back to what he and Adam had in the Garden, he has placed us in (In Christ) at his right hand. There is now a man in Heaven, that is the ruler of all things, with angels worshiping him, and seated with God on the throne. Adam could never have taken us to such heights. Angels do not have spirits, they are ministering spirits. They can take the visage of man, but they cannot be born human like our Lord did. The question of whether sin means spiritual death or physical death is answered by the fact that God required blood as an atonement for sin. He even accepted animal blood for a season to take the place of the believer of that time. It is clearly physical death as our Lord himself had to suffer and die physically. Sin does lead to the eventual second death of the Lake of fire and separation from God. Scripture does speak of people being 'dead in trespasses and sin", but physical death was definitely brought about by sin. It is the physical death and shedding of blood by Christ that redeems us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted March 17, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 269 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,235 Content Per Day: 3.48 Reputation: 8,518 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) If Adam was created to never die, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life, which according to Gen 3:22 would have allowed him to live forever? Hi Alex, I have some thoughts on this topic that I hope you may find helpful. By Jesus` very own words He declared that God`s word was written in relation to Him. `Then He said to them,..."..all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses & the prophets & the Psalms concerning Me." And He opened their understanding that they might comprehend the Scriptures.` (Luke 24: 44 & 45) Thus as we read God`s word we should always think, "What is this of Christ." So let`s look at what we know. Christ is the Way of Life. (Prov. 15: 24. Jer. 21: 8. John 14: 6) Christ is the Light of Life. (John 8: 12) Christ is the bread of Life. (John 6: 35, 48) Christ is the Word of Life. (Phil. 2: 16. 1 John 1: 1) Christ is the Fountain of Life. (Ps. 36: 9) Christ is the promise of Life. (2 Tim. 1 : 1) & Christ is the Tree of Life. (Gen. 2: 9. Rev. 2: 7. 22: 2, 14) Christ is the source of Life. And each `symbol` gives some aspect of this glorious life in Christ Jesus. It is a fruitful life in service & relationships. Christ continually nourishes us in our life now & then throughout eternity. Note, there is no LIFE in the world. The proof of this `life,` is seen in our service & relationships with others. As we cooperate with the Holy Spirit we will experience the fruitfulness of a Christ led life. Adam & Eve needed to `eat of the tree of Life,` which I believe they did regularly. This means they walked with the Lord in the garden & partook of Him, His attributes, His Life. When they disobeyed, God would not have them to continually live in their fallen state, thus they were `separated` from God`s eternal life. That is why we know that Jesus (the source of Life) came to redeem us from the fallen state & bring us back into communion with God so that we could through out eternity receive His life. I believe the Body of Christ is going to come to a greater understanding of Christ, His character & His purposes in the coming days. This the Holy Spirit is leading us into. `...till we all come to the unity of the faith & the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the statue of the fullness of Christ;....may grow up in all things into Him who is the head - Christ.` (Eph. 4: 13 - 15) Unto Him be glory in the church, Marilyn. Edited March 17, 2015 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted March 17, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 17, 2015 If Adam was created to never die, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life, which according to Gen 3:22 would have allowed him to live forever? Hi Adam Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden. It had cherubums guarding it. God being all knowing, already had since the beginning of creation, a plan to provide the world with his savour. Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. This same Word of God who was made flesh and called Jesus Christ, was there with God in the beginning and created all things, and before he became flesh he was spirit. He was the Word of God and came out of God. He is God's voice. God always speaks through his Word. I would say this was not a visible tree, but a spiritual one. Satan was in heaven with God in the beginning and knew a lot. Satan is the one who has corrupted man by tempting him to eat of the forbidden fruit, of "The tree of knowledge of good and evil". Now that we know what's good and evil, we have no excuse. Not innocent anymore. The fruit of this "tree of life" is "truth". Jesus said "I am the way, the light and the truth". This is the Word of God speaking. That same Word that was in the beginning. I'd say this tree was heavily guarded by angels from Satan, so that he could not have access to the truth, for this job was reserved for Christ, who is God's Word himself, and his job to deliver full access to the truth. The tree is the Word of God. The fruit on this tree symbolises "The truth" John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ...........(The Word of God) < my words. Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. John 6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. It was not possible for man to have access to the tree of life, before Christ's death and resurrection. Now the fruit of this tree is available, but only Christ can give it to whom he choses. It is still guarded from Satan and his angels, who can never have access. Christ is the Tree of Life, and Christ is the Word of God. Christ is the way, the truth and the life. Christ is the tree of life. It's a spiritual tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted March 18, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2015 Colossians 1:16 says that all things are made by Christ, whether they be visible or invisible things. John 1:3 says that all things are made by Him. Things are material/physical things, according to the Bible there are visible and invisible material/physical things. - Angels are material beings. Materials are items of creation -whether those things are visible to certain creatures or not, but the God of creation is eternally stronger, more enduring, more powerful, greater, and much more than material, not less than material like a pagan ghost or a draft of wind. The word spirit does not necessarily suggest a ghoulish entity within us that lives forever while the body perishes. It is simply the life/thoughts within us, and when we die, we have no more life/thoughts within us, until the resurrection. Death in the Bible means death - it does not mean eternal life in another form. Life also means life. The angels are more solid than us, yet they can pass through our materials, which are basically space, and not solid at all. They can fly at speeds much faster than light. We cannot see them, our material eyes are too weak, the rays of different light from these beings passes through us and past us. God is eternal - creation is temporal - it needs God to uphold it - which He is quite happy to do, even by a simple tree with food. A real world, with a real tree with real edible fruit to promote eternal life for real people. No ghosts here, no ghosts in heaven either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Posted March 19, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,727 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 2,305 Days Won: 5 Joined: 06/29/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2015 Colossians 1:16 says that all things are made by Christ, whether they be visible or invisible things. John 1:3 says that all things are made by Him. Things are material/physical things, according to the Bible there are visible and invisible material/physical things. - Angels are material beings. Materials are items of creation -whether those things are visible to certain creatures or not, but the God of creation is eternally stronger, more enduring, more powerful, greater, and much more than material, not less than material like a pagan ghost or a draft of wind. The word spirit does not necessarily suggest a ghoulish entity within us that lives forever while the body perishes. It is simply the life/thoughts within us, and when we die, we have no more life/thoughts within us, until the resurrection. Death in the Bible means death - it does not mean eternal life in another form. Life also means life. The angels are more solid than us, yet they can pass through our materials, which are basically space, and not solid at all. They can fly at speeds much faster than light. We cannot see them, our material eyes are too weak, the rays of different light from these beings passes through us and past us. God is eternal - creation is temporal - it needs God to uphold it - which He is quite happy to do, even by a simple tree with food. A real world, with a real tree with real edible fruit to promote eternal life for real people. No ghosts here, no ghosts in heaven either. Hi Kan Angels are spirit, not material. Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. A spirit is invisible. We cannot see them, or touch them. Material things can be seen and touched. Material things perish. Gods word is also spirit. His Word gives life. His Word was with him from the beginning, and came out of him. He can send his Word whereever he wants to, and make it appear however he likes, because his Word is spirit. He happened to later changed his Word into flesh. That is the man we know Jesus Christ. He is that same Word. He became flesh, and after his resurrection, returned to spirit. What ever he spoke, is God speaking. No man can come to God through any other word, only through Gods Word. If we believe on his Son whom he sent, then we know there's no confusion which God we serve, and he is that tree of life (spiritually speaking) He's not a real tree, but his fruit, which is truth, gives life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cog Posted March 19, 2015 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 32 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/09/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2015 If Adam was created to never die, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life, which according to Gen 3:22 would have allowed him to live forever? Marilyn C and Sister are close, imo. What you're trying to do is separate seeing from what is seen, life from eating, but you can't do that - the Father and Son are one. Life is eating. My words here are the image of my awareness. I pass these words to you so that you (be)come aware... You cannot be aware without something to be aware of... awareness is the taking in of the fruit of life - the translation of the Spirit into the Body by the Soul - call it conception or eating or whatever, but you cannot separate the process or God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted March 20, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 20, 2015 Hi Kan Angels are spirit, not material. Hebrews 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. A spirit is invisible. We cannot see them, or touch them. Material things can be seen and touched. Material things perish. Gods word is also spirit. His Word gives life. His Word was with him from the beginning, and came out of him. He can send his Word whereever he wants to, and make it appear however he likes, because his Word is spirit. He happened to later changed his Word into flesh. That is the man we know Jesus Christ. He is that same Word. He became flesh, and after his resurrection, returned to spirit. What ever he spoke, is God speaking. No man can come to God through any other word, only through Gods Word. If we believe on his Son whom he sent, then we know there's no confusion which God we serve, and he is that tree of life (spiritually speaking) He's not a real tree, but his fruit, which is truth, gives life. Thanks for that I agree with you, except my concept of spirit is that it is stronger than our matter. Matter of which we are made is weaker than angels, which can break steel like it were straw, and God is even stronger than anything He has made. Creation is more like a hologram by comparison. Angels are intangible to us, only because our material is not as strong. But our lack of discernment and contact, does not make them a puff of mist that floats around. And neither is God a ghost. The concept of spirit as a ghost comes from generations of man which have lost their intelligence about the unseen worlds. But as far as the terms spirit and material are commonly used, I agree with what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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