Ezra Posted May 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 1, 2015 There is no Scriptural support for saying Paradise is in the New Jerusalem. That's a rather strange statement. On one hand you insisted above that "Paradise is no more" is false, and now you are insisting that Paradise is not in the New Jerusalem, even while you have those two Scriptures I provided right in front of you. They both refer to the New Jerusalem. So where do you think Paradise is located, and what Scripture do you have to support your statement ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Ambassador Posted May 1, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1932 Share Posted May 1, 2015 We don't know where Paradise or Heaven or Hell is. But the Bible does not say Paradise is in the New Jerusalem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted May 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted May 1, 2015 We don't know where Paradise or Heaven or Hell is. But the Bible does not say Paradise is in the New Jerusalem. Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’ You don't see what that verse says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted May 1, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 1, 2015 We don't know where Paradise or Heaven or Hell is. But the Bible does not say Paradise is in the New Jerusalem. Perhaps you should read this portion of Scripture carefully and believe that the Bible does say that Paradise is in the New Jerusalem (Rev 2:7; 21:1-22:14, with only revelant verses quoted below): 7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God... [PLEASE NOTE THE LOCATION OF THE TREE OF LIFE] 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God... 6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son... 9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;... 22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads... 10And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city... 25And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. So what we have above is the holy city New Jerusalem and within that city we have (1) the throne of God, (2) the throne of the Lamb, (3) the Paradise of God, (4) the tree of life, (5) the river of the water of life, (6) the street of the city and (7) those written in the Lamb's Book of Life. If the tree of life is in the midst of the Paradise of God, and it is also within the New Jerusalem, where then is Paradise other than in the New Jerusalem? And for you to claim that we don't know where Heaven or Hell is indicates one of two things (a) you have not read the Scriptures or (b) you do not believe the Word of God. So how do you claim to be "His Ambassador" when you are not sure where God's throne is located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Ambassador Posted May 1, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1932 Share Posted May 1, 2015 We don't know where Paradise or Heaven or Hell is. But the Bible does not say Paradise is in the New Jerusalem. Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’ You don't see what that verse says? It does not say Paradise is in the New Jerusalem. Apparently you are attempting to read into that verse something it does not say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Ambassador Posted May 1, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1932 Share Posted May 1, 2015 We don't know where Paradise or Heaven or Hell is. But the Bible does not say Paradise is in the New Jerusalem. Perhaps you should read this portion of Scripture carefully and believe that the Bible does say that Paradise is in the New Jerusalem (Rev 2:7; 21:1-22:14, with only revelant verses quoted below): 7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God... [PLEASE NOTE THE LOCATION OF THE TREE OF LIFE] 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God... 6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son... 9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;... 22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads... 10And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city... 25And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. So what we have above is the holy city New Jerusalem and within that city we have (1) the throne of God, (2) the throne of the Lamb, (3) the Paradise of God, (4) the tree of life, (5) the river of the water of life, (6) the street of the city and (7) those written in the Lamb's Book of Life. If the tree of life is in the midst of the Paradise of God, and it is also within the New Jerusalem, where then is Paradise other than in the New Jerusalem? And for you to claim that we don't know where Heaven or Hell is indicates one of two things (a) you have not read the Scriptures or (b) you do not believe the Word of God. So how do you claim to be "His Ambassador" when you are not sure where God's throne is located? I don't know who's teaching you but none of those verses say Paradise is in the New Jerusalem. God's throne is located in Heaven. Paradise and Heaven are NOT the same place. Are you getting so desperate to prove your point that you have to resort to personal insults? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted May 2, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,225 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,512 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) Hi Ambassador, I agree with you that God`s throne is located in heaven. And Ezra, here are some scriptures & thoughts you may like to think on. In the Old Testament Scriptures, there are more than 620 references concerning Heaven & the heavens. Seven of these are expressed in the superlative degree, the first by Moses in the Pentateuch: `Indeed heaven & the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God, also the earth with all that is in it.` (Deut. 10: 14) Solomon made reference to this in His dedicatory prayer for the temple; `But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, heaven & the heaven of heavens cannot contain You. How much less this temple which I have built?` (1 Kings 8: 27) David in his psalm in which he describes the ascension of Christ, he says: `Sing to God, you kingdoms of the earth; oh, sing praises to the Lord, To Him who rides on the heaven of heavens, which were of old!` ((Ps. 68: 32 – 33) Nehemiah adds yet another: `You alone are the Lord; You have made the heaven, the heaven of heavens. With all their host,…the host of heaven worships You.` (Neh. 9: 6) In these undefinable realms the Lord has prepared & established His throne. The immensity of His magnificence & majesty are wholly inexpressible. When Paul was caught up into the third heaven & had a glimpse of the celestial court, he said he saw things that could not be lawfully uttered. This means that all our known understanding of measuring for magnificent cannot express the inconceivable glory. Such terms as perfections, excellencies & magnificent are poor in relation to such transcendent glory. We are told that the host of Heaven is innumerable, then how could the human mind estimate maintenance costs? Such terms as splendors & grandeurs are too weak to describe the indescribable. Thus we need to be careful not to try & bring God the Father & His Beloved Son down to our level. That would be blasphemous in the extreme. Marilyn. Edited May 2, 2015 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted May 2, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,225 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,512 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) Hi Ezra, To my understanding Christ is the only one who is the source of eternal life. `God has given us eternal life & this life is in His Son. ` (1 John 5: 11) To me Christ is the source of eternal life. He continually sustains & nourishes us in our life now & then throughout eternity. The proof of this `life` is seen in our service & relationships with others. As we cooperate with the Holy Spirit we will experience the fruitfulness of a Christ led life. Thus the picture of Christ as the `tree of life,` shows this fruitful life through us by the Holy Spirit. Marilyn. Marilyn, While eternal life is in the Godhead, that does not cancel the existence of the tree of life and its purposes. So what's your point? Are you trying to spiritualize away the tree of life? And in fact there is no Scripture which alludes to Christ as a "tree". He says "I am the vine" but not "I am the tree of life". On the other hand, the Cross is referred to as a tree (1 Pet 2:24). Hi Ezra, There are 20 figures that are used in Scripture of Christ in connection with life. Here are 7 of them: `He is the Way of Life (Prov. 15: 24, Jer. 21: 8, John 14: 6); the Light of Life (John 8: 12), the Bread of Life (John 6: 35, 48), the Word of Life (Phil. 2: 16. 1 John 1: 1), the Fountain of Life (Ps. 36: 6). the Promise of Life (2 Tim. 1: 1) & the Tree of Life (Gen. 2: 9, Rev. 2: 7, 22: 2, 14)` A tree, as illustrating a personality, is used elsewhere in Scripture. The prophet Daniel, when interpreting the dream of King Nebuchadnezzar, said to him, `The tree that you saw....it is you, O king,...` (Dan. 4: 20 - 22) In the golden age of Egypt`s grandeur, Ezekiel the prophet, when describing Pharaoh, said, `...nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.` (Ez. 31: 8 - 9) These celebrities have perished, but the person who is designated the Tree of Life in the midst of paradise of God, abides forever & the riches of His resource never fail. Christ is the glorious maintainer & sustainer of all relationships in the celestial realms. He gives the joy unspeakable of friendship with divine love, for spiritual service in the heavenlies. What is the point? you asked Ezra. As always to lift up the name of Jesus. Marilyn. Edited May 2, 2015 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted May 2, 2015 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2015 We don't know where Paradise or Heaven or Hell is. But the Bible does not say Paradise is in the New Jerusalem. Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’ You don't see what that verse says? Yes, the tree of life is in paradise, which is the New Jerusalem, which is heaven, which comes down to earth one day. God wants to live with us on the home He made for us in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Ambassador Posted May 2, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1932 Share Posted May 2, 2015 We don't know where Paradise or Heaven or Hell is. But the Bible does not say Paradise is in the New Jerusalem. Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’ You don't see what that verse says? Yes, the tree of life is in paradise, which is the New Jerusalem, which is heaven, which comes down to earth one day. God wants to live with us on the home He made for us in the first place. Yes, it says the tree of life is in God's Paradise but it does not say where Paradise is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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