Once Saved always Saved?

[st. Worm]

Quote from Daave:

"The warnings are valid and must be heeded. Our security is valid and must be accepted."

SW:

Daave truly gets the message of Scripture that is being conveyed to believers. We need not understand why secure believers are warned about falling away from the grace given to them but the warnings are there regardless. While some opportunists are using this thread to bash denominations and churches and apparently improperly saying the Law has some bearing on our salvation this is not what God is conveying at all. The issue is not the Law, but loss of faith.

[Mark777]

Cardcaptor,

I have this funny feeling that you do not try to understand what I post. I think that I stated maybe ten times that belief is connect to works. Works come out of belief. It is belief that causes you to be able to work. (Here I am repeating myself again.)

A Christian can do all the sins you list but they cannot practice them. The Spirit stops them. Now, if you want to argue the point do so with John.

I will try to respond to you more coherently later.

I do want you to think about the fact that you are doing one of two things:

you are either:

1. Not understanding OSAS.

or

2. You do but are pretending not to see the points that I am making.

Now, please take that as an honest and friendly criticism.

Your posts are missing the mark because you are not answering OSAS beliefs - you are answering your version of it.

Try looking back at a few of my posts and see for yourself. I have taken the time to answer and critique the verse you have given and will continue to do so later but I haven't had that same pleasure given back to me.

Mark

[Mark777]

Lets see where to start.........

CC: "I don't have to "critique" anything. The scriptures are plain. The obedient go to heave and the disobedient go to hell. It doesn't matter if you are a Christian or not."

Mark777: I'm sorry. I was under the impression that we were having a conversation. Instead I guess you feel that you are speaking from on high. In a real conversation each party should care enough about the other that they bother to listen and answer the others concerns. Like I have for you. That is the least Christians should do.

The Scriptures are plain but are we? Obviously not. We have a difference of opinion. We could bark at each other and repeat ourselves as if we are talking to a wall or we could preceed with Christian love and talk about this with the Spirit.

Yes, it is true that the obedient go to heaven. We are expected to accept Jesus whom God has sent (John 3:16) we receive eternal life (Non ending life) God comes and dwells within us and changes us from the inside out. That is what I believe. Now excuse me and I will get to answering the last half of your mammoth post.

Mark

[Guest jckduboise]

Mark777, would you please tell me what OSAS stands for? I keep seeing it but have no clue.

[Mark777]

Partly answering Cardcaptor -

CC:

Edited May 29, 2006 by Mark777

[Mark777]

OSAS = Once Saved Always Saved.

[Guest jckduboise]

OSAS = Once Saved Always Saved.

Thank you

[Mark777]

Part III

John 11:25-26

Edited May 29, 2006 by Mark777

[Mark777]

Cardcaptor,

What I want you to see is that the verses you quote are vague in their description. You have to add statements like, "These must have been Christians because they were referred to as fellow laborers." You do not know that for sure and you do not know the ultimate outcome for Demas or others. But In the many verses that I have quoted it plainly says that if you accept Jesus you have obtained ETERNAL LIFE. That is non ending life. Try dealing with that. He (Christ) says that He has set us free and given you eternal life - and that the Godhead has come to dwell in you and keep you - you should acknowledge that. Any other verse that seems to say otherwise but has vague possiblities should be questioned in meaning given these clear passages. How do you deal with 1 Peter 1:23 that says we are born again of imperishable seed? (which cannot be corrupted?) Go through my post and answer Jesus Himself - throughout the book of John. Jesus declares that the issue is accepting Him and that is it. It is my, and others, contention that that Scriptures deals with a sanctification process within the life of the believer and it is possible for a believer to be punished unto death for their sin but they themselves will be saved. (I Corinthians.) I have brought up a lot of passages that I think a person of your understanding should try to answer. How do these passages fit into your scheme of things? I believe that I have offered a verse by verse explanation of verse you have given. Please offer the same.

Mark

[Mark777]

Cardcaptor:

James 1:14-15 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

This was spoken to Christians. Remember, even Christ was tempted in every point but never gave over to the temptations. Even though we are Christians we are still in the flesh and are subjecty to falling into our sins that we are tempted by. Where we go wrong is when we don't repent from those sins that we fall into.

Mark777:

This is referring to sin in general. Notice how it says, "But every man..." It is not referring to Christian but to man in general. For Christians, we have the Holy Spirit to keep us and conform us to the image of Jesus. We are not left alone to follow our lusts. We are not our own but we have been purchased with a price by God. We are his property. He is responsible for us. We are His workmanship.

Mark

Edited May 29, 2006 by Mark777