Once Saved always Saved?

[Guest Daave]

Thank you Mark777 for explaning OSAS, my mind was always trying to put an "i" in there and make "OASIS" out of somehow. I'm glad that is over with.

I was traveling through a certain city a few months back on Sunday and wanted to attend a local church. I chose to go to a denomination differant from the one I usually attend just for fun. I was there in time for Suday school and slipped into a class of about 15 adults. They were studying one of the early creeds of the church. I listened mostly as they went over point by point the beliefs expressed in the creed, but when they got to the part about the "holy catholic church" I smiled inside as the discussion turned very confusing. I must have looked like the cat that ate the canarie because after several semi-heated thrusts and perries from these well meaning adults, they looked at me and asked, "Daave, do you have anything to add?" eveybody became quite, and I had the floor. My response was something like this.

Look at the confusion that comes about when we add to the word of God. I would hope that the intent of the creed was to clarify for, and not control believers, but as we have seen here, that is not the result. Holy church, let alone holy catholic church, are terms not found in scriptures, and were bound by there intoduction, to create confusion. We who are Christ's through the new birth, are his body, and make up the church, this is what Jesus paid for with his blood. The term "holy catholic church" is wrong and unscriptural.

I shut up, and the conversation moved on.( I was not in a catholic chruch by the way, other wise I may have been drawn and quartered)

I say this to point out that OSAS is our own attempt at expaining a truth, and in doing so run the risk of over emphasising a truth in scripture and painting ourself into a corner that now requires "Proof Texts"

Most false teachings stem from this practice of gathering a bunch of sections of scripture that may or may not be in context to prove a point.

Not long ago, I made a statment in worthy boards in the thread about Hell. I forget who it was, that responded but I was gently reminded that going through the scriptures, God will deal with everything in it's proper perspective, and that focusing strictly on one subject we can over do it. He or She was absolutely right, so I would like to pass that along.

Daave

[Mark777]

Daave,

I see what you are saying but OSAS is just a reference for a body of thought concerning Scripture. It like other doctrinal titles are meant to be didactic. What we are discussing here are the possibilities of Scripture. It is something believers should always do. The thing we shouldn't do is oppose one another like enemies. Unless one is heretical in the tenets of Salvation, we are all in Christ and should love and be considerate of one another. I mean think about it - we are saved and have a mystical union with God. Lets overcome our flesh by loving one another- but we can honestly disagree and discuss things. I think.

Mark

[Guest jckduboise]

We can discuss things and should with love. I see a lot of non-loving discussion that goes on in many threads about many different topics. Sometimes I look and I can actually see a spiritual dividing line being drawn and I am frightened about it and the prophesy of division that is mentioned in the bible.

[Mark777]

Scripture tells you to love your enemies. What should you do to brothers and sisters in Christ?

If I think something is wrong I will try my hardest to convince the other of my stance but at the same time I take the time to examine mine. Passion gets the best of us sometimes but we ought to be able to put it in check when needed. I will be the first to ask everyone to pardon me if I have ever been rude and unloving. It can happen! But, I believe God has made Scripture to relate to people in a way that makes us have to come together to get a complete picture of God's truth. (Not everyone has the same gift or degree of ability.) We should give up egotism for brotherly love. God is right. We are wrong. Let our egos bend the knee to God almighty.

Lord Jesus, give us your peace and teach us to love one another as you love us. Amen.

Mark

[Mark777]

"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

[Mark777]

The pray of Jesus Christ John 17:1-18

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

A few really important things can be seen in this prayer. First, we belong to the Father. He gave us to Christ. Christ died for us not only to obtain us but to heal us of death. The Father calls us to His son and when we believe His words He gives us eternal life. It is Christ who keeps us from being lost - He sustains us. Before salvation we were lost to sin with no ability to please God. After Salvation we are kept by Him by His righteousness and we are sanctified in the truth of His word.

Mark

[santification]

Once Saved Always Saved, I was just thinking about this last night. A statement that is thought provoking.

MATT:7:21- 23

Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord,Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father

which is in heaven. Many shall say to me in that day,Lord,Lord have we not prophesied in your name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works ? And then will I profess unto them,I never knew you: depart from me ye that work iniquity.

REV3:5 to the church of Sardis, He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,but I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

You know it is so easy to search the scripture and find what you are looking for,since there is nothing new under the sun. That's why we can always find an answer to support our Yes and an answer to support our No about some inquires that we may have, but, that is when we must Trust our Lord and savior Jesus the Christ as the Judge to determine where we will spend eternity. Now Peter said that we must be ready to give an answer to anyone who ask you the reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear. James said that we should not only be a hearer of the word but a doer,it seems to me that once saved (safe from Hell) a transformation takes place from inside out,new thoughts (renewing of the mind ),new walk (feet that do not run to do mischief),and a new talk (filthy communication, lying , jestering-that brings no Glory to God,ect..). I like to keep in my memory that Love is what Love does, if we love the Lord a life changing manifestation takes place. It seems to be so easy for us to change when we fall in love with an man or when we fall in love with a woman to show the world that we are on one accord with that person, but when our Love relates to God some of us feel as if we go too deep we may drown. The Holy Ghost won't make us ashamed , nor will he cause us to drown. Santification

Edited June 1, 2006 by santification

[Guest jckduboise]

OSAS

[Mark777]

Yes, read the Scripture in post #407. Our old nature has been cricufied with Christ - it is dying.

Christ live for us and in us. He cannot be corrupted. 1 Peter 1:23. That is why it is GOOD NEWS!

Mark

[Smalcald]

Mark, you know I don't want to bring anyone down about their faith or take away the comfort and assurance we can all feel about Christ, who said He would lose none of us, so I won't. I don't really buy all of OSAS, but I am not sure I can see the harm in it?

But I have two questions, does someone who is truly saved with true faith need to repent of sin they commit and are aware of? My second question is what is the purpose of Church discipline as explained by Paul? Is it relevant to a believer, or if we do dis-fellowship or excommunicate someone, were they never saved?