Once Saved always Saved?

[Guest NewPilgrim]

Its good to know that Mark. If any man tells me he lives in Christ and is able to walk away a free man at any time, then I will show him the definition of a visitor....

[Guest NewPilgrim]

By the way, my Bible calls us servants, not slaves.

Thats why I made reference to servants in my epilogue. The position, under either english word, is one of a man in bondage, bought with a price.

[Guest livesforGOD]

This discussion is really frutless, for some will show that people can loose their salvation and the OSAS will tell you that you were never saved in the first place and that you didn't have salvation to loose.

There is no end to this agrument one way or another.

I do know that there will be many in that day that will believe they are saved and have practiced lawlessness and Jesus will reject them.

So to me the important question is not once saved always saved, it is "are you saved." That is the revelant question and one we are warned to be careful of.

My Baptist brothers and sisters who believe OSAS also believe that all you have to do to be saved is believe....... In my opinion this is a very dangerous couple of things to put into the same mind.

SE

I completely agree. salvation is not only believingin God and Jesus...it is about being a follower of God's laws...the laws are what we will be judged according to. The bible also stays...for those who knew and didnt listen ("the backsliders") will be punished far worse.....for those who have knowledge are worse off than those who never knew. God does recieve those who run from God...like the long lost son...and he rejoices in that......but U must change and truly repent. Those who are of the world cannot have God in him and whoever has God in him cannot have the world in him. Its pretty clear! If you doubt.....make right what u know God has told you and sin not as he said sooooooo many times in the bible in the OT and NT. Pretty simple.

[Guest NewPilgrim]

What is your point? Are you trying to imply that once we are saved it is impossible for us to sin?

No, although you may be interested to know that it is Impossible for a child of God to sin (1John 3:9) I'd be glad to hear your exposition of it Since John says just two chapters prior that if we say we have no sin then the truth is not in us - sticky dilemma that one, wonder how Paul would have handled it?

Are you saying that once one is a slave, they can never be set free? Even slaves in Bible times could be set free through purchasing freedom or choosing to leave slave status after 7 years.

I am saying that once one is a slave to God one is free, though Paul says it much better than I. Purchasing ones freedom is by agreement with the Bondsman (the one who has payed for the life of the slave) God has made no such 7 year contract with us. You will find that we are already justified and glorified in his sight, making his covenant with us, our bondage to righteousness, eternal.

But how could I possibly argue with someone who is greater, more wise and worth a higher price than the creator?

[Guest NewPilgrim]

Let me begin with this scripture in the KJV. I can't handle these new translations. John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

This is not a guarantee of unconditional security. It is just a statement that lets us know if we believe in the Lord and accept him as our Lord and Savior we will be saved from hell and have eternal life. I believe that is true. Once we accept Jesus as our savior we have eternal life, but I also believe we can later forfeit it by wilful disobedience. I have had things given to me and then lost them later.

What a pathetic argument.

John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life

This verse according to Butero:

John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, might get everlasting life, and probably wont come into condemnation (as long as they cling on through the will of the flesh); but isnt ACTUALLY passed from death unto life yet, but might be, one day

Sorry if this misrepresents you slightly but its the appearance you give

[Guest NewPilgrim]

This is simple. It is like someone giving me a house and saying I can live there all my life but if I break certain rules he lays out, I will be kicked out. Indeed, I have been granted that house and can "live there all my life," but at the same time if I break the owner's rules, I can be kicked out. It is possible to be given "eternal life" and have conditions upon it at the same time. This is not rocket science.

Butero, whats happened to your brain? I'm used to you presenting far stronger arguments.

Such an analogy is weak, ill-placed and contemptuous. Salvation is not a dwelling, it is a state of being, one either has it or one hasnt. It IS eternal, which means it is imperishable, by your hand or anyone elses and the verse in question clearly states in which ever translation you prefer that we who believe in him HAVE it. A thing is able to perish or it is not and that which is of God does not perish.

[Guest NewPilgrim]

The point made in 1 John is that a true Christian won't continue sinning. It is a sign they are not saved if they do. If a man gets saved today, and a year later commits adultery, I would ask you how can that be? If 1 John says he cannot sin, how did this occur? It's simple, when he committed wilful sin, he ceased to be a Christian. There is no more sacrifice for sin, and until he makes things right with God through confession, he remains outside the family of God.

I already addressed the servant question in another post. As we used to obey our old master satan with loyal service, we should now be loyal to Christ and obey his commandments.

Then to which is Paul a servant?

Romans 7: 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice

[Mark777]

Butero,

You are adding your own thoughts to the verse.

John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life'

Jesus simply says that if you hear what he has said and accept it you then have everlasting eternal non ending life. You shall not be condemned but HAVE passed from death to life. IT wouldn't be eternal if it could end. Ofcourse that is not all that happens. The Holy spirit come into you and recreates you. But, this verse, if taken plainly, is clear. If you hear and accept you receive eternal life. You will not be condemned but will live.

Mark

Edited June 15, 2006 by Mark777

[Mark777]

Butero,

That is not a gift. The Bible calls it a free gift.

[Guest NewPilgrim]

The point is that they do have eternal life, the moment they get saved. If they died at that moment, they would live forever with the Lord. At the same time, they can lose that eternal life later on through disobedience. This scripture is not a guarantee that they will not fall later on.

I think we are aware of the position you have been upholding for the last few dozen pages, how do you propose to apply this verse in support of it, bearing in mind it pretty much contradicts your position??

Also, perhaps you should be careful in distinguishing what it is to fall and what it is to fall away.