Once Saved always Saved?

[st. Worm]

New pilgrim:

St Worm, your unfortunate attitude is that if some perceives a passage differently, you seem to consider that they are ignoring it. This is an unfair aspursion to cast on our bretheren. No one has ignored the passages in question, you simply choose not to accept their reading of it, as is your freedom."

SW:

That's not really the case. If I made such a comment it was not a literal "you ignored the passage". It was a comment that they might as well have ignored it or had the same effect as ignoring it. Seems like you may have cast an "unfair aspursion" on me.

[Mark777]

st. Worm,

Direct me there and give me a little time.

Thanks,

Mark

[Mark777]

My question would be:

After being saved and indwelt by the Godhead, sealed and kept by the Holy Spirit - having a new man created within us that cannot practice sin, given eternal life being born again of incorruptible seed....how could a person turn their back on God?

I say it is impossible.

Mark

Edited May 23, 2006 by Mark777

[Mark777]

That cannot be. 1 Peter 1:23 says that we are born again of incorruptible seed. That means our new man cannot be corrupted. When we accept Christ we then obtain eternal life - eternal non ending life. 1 John says that a true believer cannot practice sin so that contradicts your idea that believers can just keep on sinning. Where is the all-powerful God in all of this . I will tell you where he is - he is right there cleansing you, talking to you, helping you, empowering you - He has sealed you with the Holy Spirit. True believers will perserver because they have been remade with a regenerated spirit.

Where is the power of your Christ? What did his sacrifice gain that the blood of bulls and goats didn't? Jesus didn't just die to pay for our sins but to create the situation that allows us to be changed. There is an effect of salvation I do not think you are appreciating.

Mark

[Mark777]

It is impossible for a regenerated spirit that has eternal life - that is indwelt by God almighty to reject the righteousness of Christ. God would be a complete failure if that were so. My whole argument is based on the fact that Christ loves us and died for us while we were sinners. We were slaves of sin but now we are slaves of righteousness. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT. As Romans and John agree, true believers walk and practice righteousness - they cannot practice sin. Their new nature makes sure of it. Thank God.

Mark

Edited May 23, 2006 by Mark777

[Mark777]

hr. jr

I am not sure what biblical passages you are referring to. Could you be more specific and I will consider them. Right off the top of my head, I do not know of any verses that say new Christians will decide against Christ.

Maybe you do not consider the power of Jesus Christ in such situations?

Mark

[Mark777]

Sorry, I did not see your Revelation 3:11.

It just refers to a crown. There are different crowns for different rewards - which one is the verse referring to?

Mark

[Mark777]

I don't agree. The whole context is about rewards. It is talking about what Christ is going to reward them with for maintaining their works - "I will make them to come and worship before your feet and to know that I have loved you" and "I will keep you from the hour of temptation.." Plus it says, "..that no man takes your crown."

Mark

Edited May 23, 2006 by Mark777

[Mark777]

"Rev 3:11 was a separate reference from the question. There are people who will not take the mark in the tribulation period. They will be executed for not taking the mark. The only reason for not taking the mark is that they were Christians."

I must be getting tired. I am missing your point.

Mark

[Mark777]

In Revelations 3, I like this part of verse 7:

"...He that is true, He that has the key of David, HE THAT OPENS AND NO MAN SHUTS; AND SHUTS AND NO MAN OPENS." It goes well with "do not call unclean that which God has cleansed."

God opens salvation to his elect and no man can shut it.

Mark