Baltimore prosecutor files charges in Freddie Gray Case

[Guest shiloh357]

Sorry, BE.   I am not having this conversation on your terms.   Opinion is all we have until we have more evidence.  Unlike you, I am not rushing into any judgment until more evidence is made available.

[Burning_Ember]

You already rushed into judgement by saying murder charges were not appropriate.

 

If you can't actually defend your argument, that's fine.

[Guest shiloh357]

No, I have not rushed to judgment.   A rush to judgment would be assigning guilt before the trial is underway and evidence has been presented.   YOU are the one rushing to judgment and you did the same thing in the Ferguson case.   You assumed guilt.

 

I am assuming innocence which is what the law requires.

[Burning_Ember]

No, I have not rushed to judgment.   A rush to judgment would be assigning guilt before the trial is underway and evidence has been presented.   YOU are the one rushing to judgment and you did the same thing in the Ferguson case.   You assumed guilt.

 

I am assuming innocence which is what the law requires.

Keep the discussion on the argument, not the person.

 

You claimed that it is inappropriate for the Officers to be charged with murder. Charges are not convictions. Being charged with something doesn't mean guilty of the crime.

 

So, what proof do you have that it is not appropriate for those charges to be laid? There is a timeline of events that was just released today, and the statement of probable cause. Those are readily available for you to cite to prove your case.

[Guest shiloh357]

You are the one assuming guilt which makes you the one rushing to judgment.   It's really, really simple BE.

 

I claimed it was in appropriate for them to be charged with murder because there is no evidence that they intended, on any level to cause the death of Gray.   A murder conviction will have to be based, motive and the intent to kill, neither have been established and so far there is no reason to say they murdered anyone.  These murder charges were necessary to help and reestablish some order on the streets and to appease the mob.   And it worked.

 

The charges don't mean guilt and so I don't need to go any further than to say that until there is evidence that they had intent and motive kill Gray, murder charges are simply not appropriate.   I am going to need to more than a timeline to establish  murder.

 

Frankly, your standard for what constitutes, "proof" is less than impressive. 

[Burning_Ember]

You are the one assuming guilt which makes you the one rushing to judgment.   It's really, really simple BE.

 

I claimed it was in appropriate for them to be charged with murder because there is no evidence that they intended, on any level to cause the death of Gray.   A murder conviction will have to be based, motive and the intent to kill, neither have been established and so far there is no reason to say they murdered anyone.  These murder charges were necessary to help and reestablish some order on the streets and to appease the mob.   And it worked.

 

The charges don't mean guilt and so I don't need to go any further than to say that until there is evidence that they had intent and motive kill Gray, murder charges are simply not appropriate.   I am going to need to more than a timeline to establish  murder.

 

Frankly, your standard for what constitutes, "proof" is less than impressive. 

3rd and 2nd degree depraved heart murder do not require intent to kill. This is why I'm asking if you know how the definition of those two charges. What the charge actually is, is very relevant to how why someone gets charged with it.

[Guest shiloh357]

2nd degree murder is simply not premeditated.   Both 2nd and 3rd degree murder require an intent to kill.  Simply not premeditated intent.   3rd degree murder is different than manslaughter.   Manslaughter is simply the result of reckless behavior that ends in someone's death.

 

But "murder" in any degree requires a demonstration of some kind of intent.     So the question is was there any intent on taking the life of Freddie Gray.  The prosecution will have to prove intent/motive.

[The_Patriot21]

You already rushed into judgement by saying murder charges were not appropriate.

 

If you can't actually defend your argument, that's fine.

Actually I'm with Shiloh at this one. He did say that murder charges were not appropriate at this point (which you yourself quoted) and he did say that could change in time. And he's actually presented an argument, while all you've done is argue, and not even well. If all you can do is twist his words, perhaps you should take a break until you can come up with an intelligent argument.

[Burning_Ember]

2nd degree murder is simply not premeditated.   Both 2nd and 3rd degree murder require an intent to kill.  Simply not premeditated intent.   3rd degree murder is different than manslaughter.   Manslaughter is simply the result of reckless behavior that ends in someone's death.

 

But "murder" in any degree requires a demonstration of some kind of intent.     So the question is was there any intent on taking the life of Freddie Gray.  The prosecution will have to prove intent/motive.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/what-is-depraved-heart-murder-in-maryland/2015/05/01/b2619450-f021-11e4-8abc-d6aa3bad79dd_story.html

 

From the article;

Second-degree murder is just below first-degree murder and generally holds that there was no premeditation.

 

...

 

There are different forms of second-degree murder. Baltimore Police Officer Caesar R. Goodson Jr. was charged Friday with second-degree depraved-heart murder in the death of Freddie Gray, who died in police custody. “Depraved-heart” second-degree murder holds that the suspect held a reckless disregard for another person’s life.

 

Manslaughter (3rd degree murder) also does not require intent to kill.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes, it does.   That is what separates it from manslaughter.