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Who is grafted into whom?


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I'll state publicly that Jesus is God.

Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  • 2 months later...
On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2015 at 6:19 PM, JohnD said:

Romans 11:16–28 (NASB95)

16If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.

17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.

19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”

20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;

21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

25For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;

26and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”

27This is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”

28From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;

 

What is grafted into what?

 

The Church grafted into Israel?

 

Israel grafted into the Church?

 

Wouldn't that make the Gentiles the natural branches?

The tree is the kingdom of heaven/God. The kingdom which Christ preached is not of this world.  A kingdom of which king is also priest. The order of Melchizedek.

Mt 8:10  When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11  And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12  But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 

Lu 13:28  There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
 

Edited by Joline
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On 11/6/2015 at 0:14 PM, Ezra said:

 

This is so fundamental that no Christian should have any question about it. Without the outpouring of the promised Holy Spirit (which would only be possible after the ascension of Christ) there would have been no Church (Jew and Gentile in one Body).  The Feast of Pentecost was a harvest feast which pre-figured the harvest of souls on the Day of Pentecost as revealed in Acts chapter 2.  It is in verse 47 that we read: "And the Lord added to THE CHURCH (Gk. ekklesia) daily such as should be saved".  It is also important to note that this happened on the first day of the week (the Lord's Day).

I agree.

 

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12 hours ago, Joline said:

The tree is the kingdom of heaven/God. The kingdom which Christ preached is not of this world.  A kingdom of which king is also priest. The order of Melchizedek.

Mt 8:10  When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11  And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12  But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 

Lu 13:28  There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
 

And the name of that kingdom of (from) heaven / God is?

  • The Israel of God (Galatians 6:16)
  • All Israel (Romans 9:6, Romans 11:26)

 

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20 hours ago, JohnD said:

And the name of that kingdom of (from) heaven / God is?

  • The Israel of God (Galatians 6:16)
  • All Israel (Romans 9:6, Romans 11:26)

 

Well it's name is the kingdom of heaven or the kingdom of God according to Christ. No, I do not think it is called all Israel. It is distinct from Israel.

Ac 1:6  When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

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Acts 1:6 was referring to physical Israel. Not All Israel (Spirit Israel).

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Human beings are hybrid beings, compound beings of body and spirit. We also have a soul (which arguably is the buffer between the other two).

What goes on here in the physical realm is carried out in the spiritual realm (and vice versa). See Ephesians 1:3 and Ephesians 2:6-7.  That the very purpose for the existence of the physical realm is to put down sin and evil in both realms Matthew 16:19, Colossians 1:20).  The crux of all is Christ and him crucified (John 8:24, Matthew 12:39-40, Luke 24:25-27, John 5:39-40). He is the focal point, the one who did what it took to accomplish the defeat of sin and of death.

Along the way God established the Law of Moses to stand as the written letter specifying what good and evil are and distinguishing between the two. A portion of it was to deal with personal sins with temporary atonement (the Levitical sacrificial portion of the Law of Moses) all under the corporate annual blood sacrifice done in the holiest place once a year. That portion being fulfilled in the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ on the cross, the Law stands as the written condemnation of all who will not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 3:16-18 / Galatians 3:24-28).

The physical versus the spiritual. The distinction and demarcation drawn right down the middle of history all the way back to Cain and Abel and even to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life (also in Eden).  Adam and Eve were driven from Eden to prevent their eating from the tree of life after they fell because it would have made eternally permanent the fallen sin state of mankind. And man's sin would have been like the angel's sin (those angels who fell) unredeemable.

God created physical Israel as a vehicle to usher into this dark world of sin and death the light and life of the Word of God in both forms (written and personified):

John 17:17 (AV)

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 1:1 (AV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (AV)

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 14:6 (AV)

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

But the physical Jew / Israel is not saved by being physically the heirs of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...

Romans 9:1–6 (AV)

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

John 5:39–45 (AV)

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

41 I receive not honour from men.

42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

Romans 11:23 (AV)

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Note the purpose and distinction:

Romans 2:25–29 (AV)

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Genesis 29:35 the very name Judah from which the name Jew comes means "praise" so the above is saying "whose [Jewishness] is not of men [physical] but of God [spiritual]

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Pride and prejudice prevent people from seeing what is clearly in the Bible. Jewish pride and Gentile prejudice.

John 1:11–13 (AV)

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Galatians 3:24–28 (AV)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

Galatians 6:11–16 (AV)

11 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.

12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

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On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 2:15 AM, JohnD said:

Acts 1:6 was referring to physical Israel. Not All Israel (Spirit Israel).

Anyway, as it says..... The heavenly kingdom is distinct from the nation of Israel.

Edited by Joline
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Yes...

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