HePaidForUs Posted June 12, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 58 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 72 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/12/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2015 Hi Folks.. Hmm..You know - the title here "worthy christian" - I mean - well,how do I say this tactfully - well,its just plain wrong,isnt it..?...To call us "worthy",as if WE are the judge of sch things..?...Seems a bit - pompous - arrogant - divisive even - as if we say "we are worthy but you are not"...Can anyone else see that..?.. There was a time when I would have thought the same thing. The Word says those who do not believe in Christ are not worthy of eternal life. Those who do, are. But we are only worthy because Christ makes us worthy. It is not by our own holiness or righteousness that we are worthy, but rather the holiness and righteousness of the One who purchased us with His Blood. We live in Him and He lives in us. We are worthy because we serve the One who is exceedingly worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted June 12, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Hmm..You know - the title here "worthy christian" - I mean - well,how do I say this tactfully - well,its just plain wrong,isn't it..?...To call us "worthy",as if WE are the judge of such things..?...Seems a bit - pompous - arrogant - divisive even - as if we say "we are worthy but you are not"...Can anyone else see that..?.. There was a time when I would have thought the same thing. The Word says those who do not believe in Christ are not worthy of eternal life. Those who do, are. But we are only worthy because Christ makes us worthy. It is not by our own holiness or righteousness that we are worthy, but rather the holiness and righteousness of the One who purchased us with His Blood. We live in Him and He lives in us. We are worthy because we serve the One who is exceedingly worthy. ~ Amen But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 Because For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 He Is Worthy For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 His Children Are And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Revelation 1:5 Worthy For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15 Too And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro1728 Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 73 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/14/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1974 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Hey Pete, I'm not an ultra-dispensationalist or anything (I married one, so I learned more about that than I ever knew existed.) But it does help to understand that there are different dispensations in the Bible. Think of it like different eras in history. God didn't change, but His plan for His people did. He's not being inconsistent, we are. Think about if you were trying to herd sheep (God calls us sheep because...well, we really aren't that smart are we?) If you need them to go a certain way, but the herd goes too far, you might need to head them off from a different direction. The Jews were sanctified by the law, but that's a temporary thing, and people can only keep up some thing like that for a little while before they mess up again. Jesus' death was a permanent sacrifice that did away with the old law. His sacrifice is the only way. The Jews rejected that and with the stoning of Stephen, it ushered in a new plan that included Gentiles. (Most of us here.) Now, I don't get into the part where they chop the book of Acts into little pieces, but if you look at the Bible through the lens of dispensations, (or God's plan in context), there aren't inconsistencies--with GOD that is. I suppose that is oversimplified and there are many that could explain better than that, but it might help you put the battle of "contradictions" aside for you to look at the whole more clearly. The other things fall into place as you study the Bible more. But you DO need the Holy Spirit to help you understand it. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense. Think of it like...well, when I am new on a job, everything is so overwhelming, it is all a blur. I'm like a deer in the headlights and nothing makes sense. I'd look at manuals and it's like they are in Chinese. But then when I shake free of that, my eyes are more open and then I think, "Well, d'uh. It's so obvious. What was my problem?" The Holy Spirit is the light bulb for us there. I hope that helps...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteC-UK Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 9 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Hi Folks... First let me say thanks for the replies..It seems clear to me - you all here,are seeing somethng Im missing - or perhaps Iam seeing somethng you are missing - for it it also very clear,the god of the bible - Old testamant and New - are the SAME being,same Deity - clearly this is so,the modern Christian religion worships the old Hebrew god,Yahweh.Jehovah ans this is th belief YOU ALL share - and THERE,right there,is the heart of my dilemma...I know every response here has been to help me understand that viewpoint - but honestly - I dont thnk there is any help available - I believe a most fundamental error has been made - and that ACTUALLY,the Father that Christ speaks of,is NOT the god of the jews at all - and in fact,His teachng,is aimed to lead the people AWAY from ALL that former tradtition complelty... It is a case where He came,and essentially taught an entirely NEW truth - even said as much plainly - said openly HE was teaching now,SECRETS that no mortal had ever known,and that NO ANGEL had ever known - He then explains about a "boundless invisible spirit that is the RAUSE of everything..Indeed,He relays ALL OF CREATION - fomth is FAther spiriits "first thought" - right through to "mankind walks the Earth"...it soon becomes very clear,the god of the bible,OUR creator,is NOT that SOURCE of cretaion itself..Chrost tells us the ORIGINS of Yahweh/Jehovah and that deity is NOT present at the START of creation - that deity,CHRIST SAYS,is an ANGEL - a created form,a creature just like You and I are... The more I read and REALISE about Chroist,the more I realise He IS speaking about an entirely diffent god - and this is WHY HE then tells us to shun and avoid the organised religon comletly - REPLACED al its OLD traditons with simple NEW TRUTHS - for example - stop temlpe worship He said,no babbling repeates prayers of begging supplication - no rituals - no PUBLIC wrship at all He said,fro ll these thngs are done for MORTAL power and prestige..And the religous authoirty itself..?..The PHARISEES,priestly caste and teachrs of "spiritual truth"..?..HE DESPISED THEM - damn them He said,REPEATEDLY - warnd us they LIED and MISLED us on ON PURPOSE HE said.. I have to keep asking my Self 1 crucial question here - IF their god "sent him" and they are all expecting Him and waitng for Him to come save us - then how come when .He finally gets here,in short order,they MURDER HIM..?.... WHATS that all about...?... Clearyl - He said and did some things then,that go teveryon eup n arms - THREE FACTIONS,and their ALL ENEMIES,lets not forget - yet something about Yehsua has romans and jews plotting togehter to p[ut an end to Him...WHAT THEN, could He possibly have said to upset EVERYONE..?.... Well - He basicaly came and told them as I say here - you have the "wrong god"..Even IN the bible He saysit clearly...Gosple of John I believe - we find the rabbis confront Him,and He tells them very very clealrly tha HIS Father,is NOT their god - they say they follow the god of Abraham and MOSes - and Christ says very implicitly,YES YOU DO,but you DO NOT know MY Fatherr...He then tells them THEIR god is the FATHER OFLIES that is deceving them all into plotting to MYRDER HIm,and HE warns them,this is teir gods nature LIAR and MURDERER formthe start,He says...He evn labesl their god AS "the fther of lies" - andin a modern parlance,this label isa ffixed to the "satan2 character - is it not..?... So,in John gosple then,there is a clear distinctionmade bewteenthe jewish godd whom Christ says is a lying murderer - and a new teachng H eis revealing - somethng they DO NOT KNOW He says,Our Father...We should kepe the CONYEXT here - and realise fully,HE MUST be speakng of a DIFFERENT god altogehter,for He just told them they DO NOT KNOW this FAther - and yet,they DO know their god yahweh intimately,and have ALWAYS known THAT god so - clearly then,when Christ says - yer you know THAT god but you dont know MY FATher - this is becaus ethey are two entirely different things - the god of the hebrew faith,is NOT Our Father at all.... Now - that is just 1 example from the bible itself..Other sources show many many more examples - veyr clear and precise...Christ as I say lays out theentire heircachy to creation - and it turns out YAhweh is just 1 angel amongst some 360 iothers...Indeed,the wider truth is very revealing as laid out intheos eother sources - sources THIS CHURCH the FORBAD to us as "herasy".....When you take a stepo back fromthe religous fervour of it all - it becomes very clear - we HAVE BEEN DUPED - just as Christ warned would happen - EXACTLY as He warned it would happen.. Now,Im expecting already certian types of response here - please rememeber - IM ALL ABOUT TRUTH - this is my only agenda here - to learn and understand my Father..One thing Im definately expecting - is the answer to put aside any source that is not the bible - wel,clearly that would be an eror,logically speaking- because see the very ones who forbid yo uthese other sources,are the very ones doing the deceivng - so the other osurces,are actually CRUCIAL to the truth here...And besides - lets follow ths logically - the bible says it will bring to us truth and Wisdm THROUGH the Holy spirit itself - so then we SHOULD be able to read ANY SOURCE w elike,safe and secure inthe presenc eof the Holy spirit,we will know truth from fiction REGARDLESS,because it is the HOLY GHOST that brings our trith... First point here then - WHY ban and forbid anything..?..Dont the church TRUST the Holy Spirit..?...If they DID trust their own doctrines,then they would leave us FREE to read anythng we like,the Holy spirit wil lead us true.....FActs are though,THEY FORBAD certan sources of info altogehter - and that says quite logically,they HAVE OSMETING TO HIDE and they DARE NOT let you even go look,for YES the Holy Spirit WILL REVEAL TRUTH,except of course tha trut itself is the thng they ned to remain hidden - wrong god - and the Holy spirit wi show that to us inthese other sourrces - hence they effectively OVER RIDE the Holy spirit,TAJE THAT GUIDANCE FROMUS whenthe forbid these other gosples as "herasy"...Its NOT for THEm to decide atall - it is for the INDWELLING HOly spirit to lead us - the fact that they over ride their own doctrine as it suits,should "red flag" their truemotives to our attention here.... Alongside this of course - another spect of confusin and outright hypocrasy...JOHN above - we are told wrote the CANON gospel that bares His name - and htis is "gods prophet and saint" - but do any of you also realise - He wrote another gospel also - known as the SECRET gopsel,and yet THIS one is deemd by the same church authority as HERASY - and now gods prophet has become satans pawn...And all the whil ethey tel us,this HOly Ghost is received by FOLOWING CHRIST - but see clearly,JOHN WA:KED SIDE BY SIDE with my Lord - if anyoe was "saved",then suely it is Him - and yet see just as clearly,according tothe church,this doctrine FAILED JOhn regadless and he becam eunder satns copntrol writing "herasy"....WHICH is truth..?....John WALKED with Chris became worthy - SHOULD have been eternally saved according to church and doctrine - and yet AFTER Christ ascends,John s now deemed "heretic devil spawn".... Its nto a case where He wrote herasy first,then becam esaved after He met Christ..No no no...CLEARLY,the 2heretical gople" is written AFTER Christ has been crucified,for it is an account of a DIRECT SPIRITUAL revealation formthe RISEN Christ - at this point then,John has been faithfl disciple,knows Christs truth and CRUCIALLY,has RECEIVED the Holy spirit FRO Christ - and yet,according to church authoirty,His gosple is STIL HERASY....See the contradictions are RIFE !!! Either the doctrine as presented in the bible is a fraud - or Johns Secret gospel is actually truth that the church authority wanted hidden and destroyed - they cant both be true - the doctrine of salvation did poor John no good what so ever - even after being Chrusts intimate companion,he still ends up becming stans puppet,SO WE ARE TOLD.... But no - when we add it ALL UP - the other alternative seems much much more plausable - the CHURCH AUTHORITY,its teachng is the fraud - Chist said so openly - they had the wrong,lesser deity,and they knew it,yet clung to hat god,did its bidding,and murdered Christ just as He warned them would happen...I can show you many many places where Christ is most definately distancing Hmself,disavowing that hebrew god,and clearly speaking of soemthng new,that these people He teaches are whollyUNFAIMILIAR with...As I say,keep it iin context of time and culture - at that time,and still to this day,the Hebrews have an INTIMATE realtionship with THEIR god an dknow THAT deity fully,so when Christ tells them this is all new,we can be sure it has NOTHING to do with that old god at all - SECRETS HE said that NONE had ever known,not even the Angels above.. He wanted to lead them right away from all those previosu erros - emphtically so - this is indeed what He meant when He told us we need to be prepared to HATE the parents here - not hate the person,buthte ways and tradtions - put it all aside He said - HATEit - fo rit is all based onthe fundamental error - wrong god,lesser god - NOt the FAther He said - put ALL that asde now,follow ME HE said....He then proved HIs legitimate Divne authoirty - by perforimnf MIRACLES that none other had EVER matched - no priest of Yaweh had EVER given life back to the dead as Our Lod did and hti sis vecasue ther god is not the TRUE Divine..Thus Chirst was a direct threat to them their power and status,and so they clung to their lesser god,did its will and murdered Him as we al know....In my search fo rthruth here,I have actally uncovered a great many things - which wwhne looked at fresh and honestly,without the religious bias,they begin to make much more logical sense - the bible is ful of such confusion - an dit i sal lbecause we hav the foundation wrong,what is built on top is bound ot be an error also....It comes down to whethter we trust CHRIST - or the word f man - for sadly,what the bible says,is NOT what Christ had to say Himself... 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MorningGlory Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2015 Well - He basicaly came and told them as I say here - you have the "wrong god"..Even IN the bible He saysit clearly...Gosple of John I believe - we find the rabbis confront Him,and He tells them very very clealrly tha HIS Father,is NOT their god - they say they follow the god of Abraham and MOSes - and Christ says very implicitly,YES YOU DO,but you DO NOT know MY Fatherr...He then tells them THEIR god is the FATHER OFLIES that is deceving them all into plotting to MYRDER HIm,and HE warns them,this is teir gods nature LIAR and MURDERER formthe start,He says...He evn labesl their god AS "the fther of lies" - andin a modern parlance,this label isa ffixed to the "satan2 character - is it not..?... So,in John gosple then,there is a clear distinctionmade bewteenthe jewish godd whom Christ says is a lying murderer - and a new teachng H eis revealing - somethng they DO NOT KNOW He says,Our Father...We should kepe the CONYEXT here - and realise fully,HE MUST be speakng of a DIFFERENT god altogehter,for He just told them they DO NOT KNOW this FAther - and yet,they DO know their god yahweh intimately,and have ALWAYS known THAT god so - clearly then,when Christ says - yer you know THAT god but you dont know MY FATher - this is becaus ethey are two entirely different things - the god of the hebrew faith,is NOT Our Father at all.... Do you even OWN a Bible? If so, have you ever read it? What you have posted is pure heresy. You should be ashamed to call yourself a Christian while trying to teach the outright lies you have posted here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro1728 Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 73 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/14/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/01/1974 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I think that you need more help than we can give you here on this forum. You have some very fundamental misconceptions. I am sure that some members here that live in your area could recommend a church that is doctrinally sound. You need some one on one time with a pastor or leader. If you pray sincerely to God, He will not ignore your desire to find the truth. He will send someone your way to help you understand. You DO need the Holy Spirit to make it clear to you. We will pray that you find the truth. Don't give up in your search for answers. Your eternity is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted June 13, 2015 First let me say thanks for the replies.... It seems clear to me - you all here are seeing something I'm missing.... or perhaps I am seeing something you are missing.... for it it also very clear The GOD of the bible.... Old Testament and New - are the SAME being, same Deity.... clearly this is so, the modern Christian religion worships.... the old Hebrew GOD,Yahweh.... Jehovah and this is the belief YOU ALL share.... I believe a most fundamental error has been made.... and that ACTUALLY, the Father that Christ speaks of.... is NOT The GOD of the Jews at all.... Beloved Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Psalms 2:6-8 Although There Are False Prophets For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6 There Is A Holy Book That Speaks Of The Holy One Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6 Who Is The LORD And The God And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. John 20:26-31 Over Israel For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:25-29 ~ With Deep Joy In LORD Jesus, I Am Praying My Blessings Over You Dear One But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 That You May See Yeshua, The God Of Abraham, Isaac And Jacob For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 And Be Blessed Beloved, Be Mightily Blessed And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:3-5 Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.26 Content Count: 27,774 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,466 Days Won: 129 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Steward Share Posted June 13, 2015 Peter, you've addressed a great number of issues. I'm not sure what books you're reading -- but before reading "other" books, you really need to be grounded in what the Bible says. You are listening to a great number of deceiving spirits. Remember the warning that Paul gave, 2Co 11:3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 2Co 11:4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. 2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 2Co 11:15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. Your post Peter is simply showing the truth of what Jesus said in Matthew 24 as a sign of the last days. Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered them, "See that no one leads you astray. Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray. Why is it imperative to know the Bible? Because the warnings of not knowing what the Bible says is prophetic! Amo 8:11 "Behold, the days are coming," declares the Lord GOD, "when I will send a famine on the land— not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD. Amo 8:12 They shall wander from sea to sea, and from north to east; they shall run to and fro, to seek the word of the LORD, but they shall not find it. Your post Peter is actually prophetic as it shows how the enemy can sow seeds of unbelief, and a without the Word of God as your truth -- many are misled by false spirits as the Scriptures foretell. May the Lord richly bless you -- and I trust you will seek the Lord within His Word! Jer 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. Your friend in the Lord with much agape love, George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Dearest Peter Your Post Seems Very Islamic And Yet The Holy Jesus Of The Holy Bible Still Remains Your Only Hope (For Jesus IS Greater~!) For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. Isaiah 57:15 ~ Still Praying Beloved Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 1 Corinthians 5:20-21 Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteC-UK Posted June 13, 2015 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 9 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Hi Folks.. Morning Glory; I should be ASHAMED you say - for what - asking questions..?..Pointing out iNCONSISTANCIES..?..If its hersy thenthe bible IS herasy itself,fo rwhat I said IS found inthe bible,gosple of John - here I will show you it if I may..It begins John 8,first two thinggs to note and remember,then I present the conversatin in question...First though : 13 The Pharisees challenged him, - - - 19 Then they asked him, “Where is your father?” “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. Take note there - PHARISEES are SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY,teachers and Rabbis - Yeshua just told them clearly that they do NOT KNOW HIM OR HIS FATHER...Let that sink in deep as we follow the rest.. 25 “Who are you?” they asked. “Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. 26 “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.” See then immediately,He makes a clear distinction - HE WHO SENT ME - IF He meant a diety that they ALREADY KNEW,such as Yahweh,then He WOULD tell them who this god is - the fact is though,HE does NOT make ANY referance ANYWHERE at any time to THEIR god - ALWAYS HE speaks in this neutral sense,NEW sense,and terms god only and always as FATHER - NEVER a given name or label that the Jews are ALREADY FAMILIAR WITH,never an individual name that they are already familiar with...The fact He uses UNFAMILIAR titles here CONTINUOSLY,is a clear indication that He is speaking about and wishing to emphasise,that He is teachng about a different god entirely..And indeed,Im about to show you He will CLEARLY disavow THEIR god as the conversation follows : 27 They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.” Again see clearly the distincton - they did not understand about HIS Father - but see - they are RABBIS,yes..?..Spiritual authority that DO UNDERSTAND THEIR OWN GOD fully and intimately - but Christ tells them they do not understand HIS Father..Always keep it in CONTEXT...He says the ONE who sent me - IF HEmeant their god,then here HE would say Yahweh sent me - or god sent me - again HE EMPHASISES,only HE knows this god and the othes do NOT,hence He sayss that One who sent me,as in the one you DONT know !! If Hemeant THEIR god then He WOULD say "YOUR god sent me" - or HE would say "OUR god sent me" - instead HE emphasises again clear distinction between THEIR god and HIS Father.. 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” Ah see clearly here - SOME jews understood Him,He is speaking about a NEW truth,and as this dawns on them He tells them now folow me and I will reveal more..And there - He has just told them their god has misled them and as yet they do NOT have TRUTH - if they do NOT have truth then they have ERROR - and see then their truth and their error IS the god YAhweh who THE KNOW INTIMATELY....Pure logic tells us He MUST be speaking about a DIFFERENT truth that THEY LACK and THAT HE HAS.. Hold to ME HE said,THEN you will know truth and be free - in other words,He is saying but if you hold to THEM then you have error and remain trapped in ignroance - H is offering NEW TRUTH of a new god - they are offering old truth of their god Yahweh and their "truth" is NOT HIs truth,it is obvious..Yahweh IS their truth their one and only truth - yet Chirst is tellingthem clearly,follow me and learn a NEW truth that sets you free from that..Next : 33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?” Ok good - THEY claim affiliation to Yahweh - Abrahams god - and see next what Christ says : 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[b]” He agrees they ARE Abrahams descendants - tells them He knows they plot to MURDER HIm - and makes a CLEAR DISTINCTION AGAIN - that HE is speaking a truth from HIS FATHER - and that THEY are doing the same from THEIR father....He COULD NOT BE CLEARER - their god is NOT HIS Father...Look next He says : 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.” He tells them very clearly they are plotti to kill Him for revealing this NEW truth that He empahsises COMES FROM GOD...He then calls ABRAHAM A LIAR,saying that ABraham did NO SUCH THING - in other words,Abraham NEVER gave them "truth from god" at all,and He backs that statement up by telling them they are "following THEIR own father" - again the clear EMPHASIS their father as opposed to HIs Father.. Next,the most condemning part of all..Having told them clearly that His Father is NOT their god and that the DO NOT YET KNOW HIs Father (but if they now follow Him He will give them the truth to set them free) - having laid the groundwork and explained the difference n tuths,He is now going to explain their gods nature - a very clear and precise WARNING : “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.” 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. See there,He tels them their god is not THE god supreme - you belong to YOUR father He says,and Iam from mine..He says very very clearly their god is the DEVIL,a murderer and a liar 0 indeed as said,the "father of lies2 itself - and again I remind you all - in ourmodern parlance,this phraseis attributted to the devil... Sum it up then - the rabbis quesion Christ about His truth - He says basically, "my truth is NOT your truth - my Father is NOT your god - you ARE of the god of Abraham but Iam NOT,and your god is planning to have you murder me because of this truth - your god is a liar and mirderer,bt if you listen to me i can set you free from all that... This is not herasy - the church have brain washed you into being half asleep and unquestioning..This is the search for legitimate spiritual truth....Whilst we are on this search,such questions and poitns raised MUST BE DDRESSED or else,how do you know you even have truth at all..?... One such crucial point - John - these two conflicting positions - one mnute hes a saint,gods prophet - next hes lost hopeless sinner,writing herasy and under the devils control - WHICH IS IT..?...As I say - it shows EITHER the doctrine of salvation is a fraud and didnt work for him at all,even though he walked side by side with the LIVING Christ - or it shows the church has something they wish to remain hidden and so they forbid certain sources of wisdom from us....Anyone care to coment..?... Edited June 13, 2015 by PeteC-UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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