Defense of the Post-Trib / Pre-Wrath Position

[Diaste]

On 9/26/2022 at 5:48 AM, Dirt Eaters said:

I have a question with all this pre post stuff. 

Shouldn't we be the vessels of the Lord, for Him to choose when to use us. 

Also, i thought scripture tells us to go out to the world. To be the children of God to all. To become a beacon for all to see. 

Isnt worrying about when we are going 'a lot' 'self' gratifying.

Shouldnt we be about our Father's business, instead of our own?

And understanding the Return of the King and waiting and hoping, even longing, for that day is not our Father's business? We shouldn't look forward to the Lord Jesus' return and know when it is and how He returns? 

It will be the event that is the only truly, and eternally, gratifying occurrence in all history. 

It's almost as if you feel nothing was written about the King's return in all scripture; like it's all just gap filling based on little to no scriptural evidence. 

[Diaste]

On 9/26/2022 at 5:52 AM, Dirt Eaters said:

I sometimes think the whole issue on the rapture is like smoke and mirrors to Christians. To keep them preoccupied and out of the picture. For Satan to go about his work, unhindered by Christians. While the Christians are predominantly fixated on the rapture

The first life changing thing I ever heard about the Lord was the fact of His return. 

I don't think there is prescription for what people hear that changes the heart and mind and turns them to the Lord. 

 

[Dirt Eaters]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

The first life changing thing I ever heard about the Lord was the fact of His return. 

I don't think there is prescription for what people hear that changes the heart and mind and turns them to the Lord. 

 

When people talk about the rapture, they are not talking about Jesus return

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, Dirt Eaters said:

When people talk about the rapture, they are not talking about Jesus return

I do. 

Some think it's some secret thing that happens. I know the gathering of us to Him[rapture] only happens at His return; and it's not secretive. 

[Dirt Eaters]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

I do. 

Some think it's some secret thing that happens. I know the gathering of us to Him[rapture] only happens at His return; and it's not secretive. 

My comment was in referance to this thing so many are excited about, but is unclear in scripture.

The readings that church members point out to me can go either way. I personally don't agree with the thinking, and No One at church sets any challenge to it.

The irony is, anything else that anyone speaks of, has to be clearly confirmed in scripture. Or tested.

Even when i do use scripture to show why i am in disagreement to pre trib rapture, i am told to trust the elders of the church. 

What happens if they are wrong?

Every major affair written in scripture has a multitude of writings about it. The Messiah , a virgin birth , great day of the lord . Even the Anti-christ

Where is the clarity for the rapture?

Sorry, im not buying into it.

[WilliamL]

6 hours ago, Dirt Eaters said:

My comment was in reference to this thing so many are excited about, but is unclear in scripture.

The Rapture is hardly the only thing people think is unclear in scripture. Evidenced by the multitude of different Christian denominations, due to all sorts of doctrinal issues. So your picking out this single issue may be revealing more about yourself than the issue.

6 hours ago, Dirt Eaters said:

Even when i do use scripture to show why i am in disagreement to pre trib rapture, i am told to trust the elders of the church. 

Scripture trumps elders every time. However, Rapture doctrine is generally not accounted to be a salvation issue. But it will be a kingdom issue, because every believer is currently being tested, and their rewards will follow accordingly when the Lord returns:

Daniel 12:3 And those who are intelligent/prudent shall shine like the brightness of the firmament, and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever.

Those who have best prepared themselves with the truths of the Word for the Lord's return will be granted greater rewards in the kingdom than those who have not. That is why the study of this issue has merit.

[Dirt Eaters]

45 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

The Rapture is hardly the only thing people think is unclear in scripture. Evidenced by the multitude of different Christian denominations, due to all sorts of doctrinal issues. So your picking out this single issue may be revealing more about yourself than the issue.

Scripture trumps elders every time. However, Rapture doctrine is generally not accounted to be a salvation issue. But it will be a kingdom issue, because every believer is currently being tested, and their rewards will follow accordingly when the Lord returns:

Daniel 12:3 And those who are intelligent/prudent shall shine like the brightness of the firmament, and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever.

Those who have best prepared themselves with the truths of the Word for the Lord's return will be granted greater rewards in the kingdom than those who have not. That is why the study of this issue has merit.

Who am i to argue. Lol i realize im a newbie ( heard the phrase a few times at church)

In my mind, we should always walk with God, no matter what. Prepare for the worst. 

And if i am wrong, its ok, because i am already walking with the Lord. 

Who knows, maybe those left behind needed what i prepared. 

---------------

But i can not go head long into the rapture idea, with not being ready for what may come.

Who knows, maybe God wants me to stay anyways. It isnt my choice,  it is whatever God wants.

Btw, if you use scripture as a tool to show how God keeps safe His children. Your examples: To be taken out of your old house and make a new home somewhere completely different with only the clothes on your back I.E lot from Sodom,

Wander around in a desert for 40 years and take all of the riches from your home country and probably lose them along the way, who is going to carry gold around the desert for 40 years I E Moses and the Israelites.

Or you're going to leave everything behind sitting a boat with a bunch of animals and start all over again I E Noah and the Ark

It's not looking good for us, lol

[WilliamL]

15 minutes ago, Dirt Eaters said:

In my mind, we should always walk with God, no matter what. Prepare for the worst. 

Check.

15 minutes ago, Dirt Eaters said:

And if i am wrong, its ok, because i am already walking with the Lord. 

Check.

16 minutes ago, Dirt Eaters said:

Who knows, maybe those left behind needed what i prepared. 

Absolutely. Whether pre- or post-trib.

17 minutes ago, Dirt Eaters said:

Who knows, maybe God wants me to stay anyways. It isnt my choice,  it is whatever God wants.

Check.

17 minutes ago, Dirt Eaters said:

It's not looking good for us, lol

On the contrary, sister: the Second Coming is closer every day... No matter what else happens.

[Dirt Eaters]

30 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Check.

Check.

Absolutely. Whether pre- or post-trib.

Check.

On the contrary, sister: the Second Coming is closer every day... No matter what else happens.

Sorry it was just a remark, looking at all the other times that God has "rescued" his people. I say that tongue in cheek. Lol 

We know God has good sense of humor. All you have to do is look at everything poor Moses had to put up with, or on the other hand what poor God had to put up with from the people of Israel coming out of Egypt. 

Let's face it how many times do you see a bush burn and not get consumed, or water coming out of a rock. Especially when that rock isn't attached to anything either because as it says in scripture The Rock followed them around in the desert. 

Sometimes I think Christians have a bad habit of taking everything too seriously. They forget God does have a sense of humor although it's a little bit weird sometimes.

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, Dirt Eaters said:

My comment was in referance to this thing so many are excited about, but is unclear in scripture.

The readings that church members point out to me can go either way. I personally don't agree with the thinking, and No One at church sets any challenge to it.

The irony is, anything else that anyone speaks of, has to be clearly confirmed in scripture. Or tested.

Even when i do use scripture to show why i am in disagreement to pre trib rapture, i am told to trust the elders of the church. 

What happens if they are wrong?

Every major affair written in scripture has a multitude of writings about it. The Messiah , a virgin birth , great day of the lord . Even the Anti-christ

Where is the clarity for the rapture?

Sorry, im not buying into it.

And you should not.

Stay the course on this one because you are hearing the truth of scripture.