Does it matter if Jews believe in the Trinity?

[JohnD]

In another thread Messianics here described Messianic Judaism as have various degrees etc.

 

I recall a time when I was just so tickled when Jews believed in Jesus at all I would have said those Jews who believe in Jesus but do not believe Jesus in God incarnate, or do not believe in the Trinity are okay for simply believing in Jesus.

 

While I realize what Jewish people are up against to believe in Jesus at all, it will come to nothing if their faith was in the wrong Jesus. 

 

2 Corinthians 11:3–4 (AV)

³But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

⁴For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

Galatians 1:8–9 (AV)

⁸But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

⁹As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

It is not enough for anyone (Jew or Gentile) to believe in A Jesus, we must all believe in THE Jesus that saves the real deal the genuine, authentic Jesus.

[missmuffet]

What is the most important is that they believe in Jesus Christ the Risen Son of God for salvation.The Messianic Jews do believe in Jesus Christ which is a blessing.I do not think believing in the trinity is a salvation issue.But is it important.

[Qnts2]

I know of very very few Jewish people who claim to believe in Jesus but deny Jesus is God.  Those who do deny Jesus is God often have many other theological issues, such as doubting the Pauline epistles.

 

I do know a few Messianic Jews who deny being trinitarians. They believe Jesus is God. One of the problems for them is the wording of the Nicean creed. Three persons. Persons seems to imply three separate beings which works against God being One. I read at one time that Persons is actually from a Greek or Latin word, personae, and has a slightly different understanding then most would take for persons. I usually say that God is One, Who is etermally three.  Anyway, I would say that few Messianic Jews that I know who stumble over the Trinity believe something like a form of Modalism. 

 

Jesus being God is non-negotiable. The doctrine of the Trinity is not explained well, and many admit to difficulty explaining it. I think the problem is that most explanations do not use wording which is understandable if you are raise believing God is One as a primary doctrine.

[Ezra]

We do not have to go to the Nicene Creed or any other creed to believe that the Godhead is indeed three Divine Persons.  Scripture is very clear that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and is indeed a Divine Person -- the Comforter or the Paraclete. 

 

As to *explaining* the Trinity (or more precisely the triune Godhead) we cannot and should not try to *explain* that which is beyond human comprehension.

 

But we can certainly believe it, and if doubting Thomas could call Jesus *God* then all believing Jews should be able to do so. And if there are two Persons who are God, why can there not be another Person, since Mt 28:19 and 1 Jn 5:7 include Him in the Godhead.

[JohnD]

Um, I am of the camp that takes being beyond human comprehension as another way of saying {blind faith required here}.

 

And I agree that if we do not have a good grasp of the concept itself, then we ought not try to explain anything.

 

That being said...

 

The so called apostle's creed etc. aside (because the errors in them betray their lack of understanding), the triune nature of the one God is not that hard to grasp or explain if you accept what the Bible teaches. How can there be three individuals who are the one God? The same way three individuals can be one family.

[JohnD]

What is the most important is that they believe in Jesus Christ the Risen Son of God for salvation.The Messianic Jews do believe in Jesus Christ which is a blessing.I do not think believing in the trinity is a salvation issue.But is it important.

 

The Trinity is a salvation issue only in that it is true about the genuine Jesus Christ.

[Ezra]

What is the most important is that they believe in Jesus Christ the Risen Son of God for salvation.The Messianic Jews do believe in Jesus Christ which is a blessing.I do not think believing in the trinity is a salvation issue.But is it important.

The Trinity is a salvation issue only in that it is true about the genuine Jesus Christ.

The Trinity is inseparable from the Deity of Christ.  And the very fact that God is called Elohim in Gen 1:1 tells us that He is the triune Godhead. In Gen 1:1,2 we see the Father and the Holy Spirit. In Jn 1:1-3 we see the eternal Word -- Christ -- who was with God and is God (not *a god* as perverted by the Jehovah s Witnesses NWT). 

 

It is also noteworthy that God is not called Yahweh Elohim (Jehovah Elohim) or LORD God until He begins His personal relationship with man (Gen 2:4) and then LORD God is consistently used until the end of chapter 3. 

 

That said, many who hear the Gospel may not hear about the divinity of the Holy Spirit.  So long as they hear that the Son of God is no less than God (Jn 1:1-3) they have heard what they need to hear -- that God Himself became the Lamb of God, and in order to do that God was manifest in the flesh (took human form).

[Your closest friendnt]

Many times I have suffer in the hands of many sensere brothers, who can not speak like Paul as Paul speaks at the beginning of his letters.

Strange they read what he wrights.

They should try to read his letters with an empty mind, just like children, not with a lot of information, trying to explain him.

If we all remember Paul was a Lawyer.

[Tristen]

Hi John,

 

Galatians 3:28

²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

Ephesians 2:14-18

¹⁴ For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, ¹⁵ having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, ¹⁶ and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. ¹⁷ And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. ¹⁸ For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

 

 

We are all Christians, regardless of Jewish or gentile heritage. There are no special rules or exemptions for Jewish or gentile Christians.

 

The Eternal Deity of Christ is overwhelmingly supported in scripture (especially the New Testament) and is therefore a fundamental doctrine of the Christian faith. It’s not necessarily a salvation issue, but I would expect such a fundamental error (i.e. NOT believing in the deity of Christ) to be corrected quickly under the guidance and influence of the indwelling Spirit - received upon the event of a sincere salvation.

 

 

If they struggle with the clear teaching of the New Testament, let them hear Isaiah;

 

Isaiah 9:6-7

⁶ For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
⁷ Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

 

Isaiah 7:14

¹⁴ Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

(Matthew 1:23

²³ “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”)

 

Isaiah 44:6

⁶ “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.

 

Isaiah 54:5

⁵ For your Maker is your husband,
The Lord of hosts is His name;
And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel;
He is called the God of the whole earth.

 

 

 

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

All jwesh beleivers strongly support that Jesus is the eternal life, the life giving spirit. And they do beleive that Jesus had the life of God and not the fallen nature of the first Adam.

No man took part in his conception .

To Mary you shall consive trough the holly spirit.

The don't need to adapt to someone else's phraseology.