Another question

[apothanein kerdos]

I wish people would answer the question instead of dancing around it. It's not that hard of a question.

I dont assign some inanimate object with spirituality. I saw it as a tool that might be used by God, nothing more.

Well you're helping to prove my final point, but not the initial one. I agree with you though.

I think the premis for the question in flawed. A store that sells a pencil with John 3:16 on it will likely only sell a pencil with John 3:16 written on it and not offer a "plain" pencil.

Also, could you fit the whole verse on one little pencil. I mean, it is quite a few words.

The problem with this is you are noting objections and asking questions that are non-issues. I simply fiat that the store is selling both types of pencils and that the verse fits on the pencil. They are non-issues because they have no inherent value to the discussion. The point stands regardless of the truth behind the hypothetical situation. The choice is still there in the paradox and whether it would be realistic in the actual world does not hold any weight what so ever.

I would be inclined to say yes, even though I assume that's probably going to be the wrong answer.....

But even so, I would buy it, for me personally. I would rather see John 3:16, than nothing, if it were a choice.

Let me go ahead and run with this because it's close enough to the paradigm that I want to address. Does a pencil with a scripture on it hold more inherent value than a blank one? While many are inclined to say yes, the simple answer is no. Both hold equal value and relevancy to Christ. Neither one is more inclined to be a witnessing tool than the other. While one has a scripture upon it that directly reveals the work of God, the other is proof of God and glorifies God. A regular pencil glorifies God in that it stands as a testament to the human mind that He has created. A mind that knew how to take lead, put it within wood, and make a writing utincil. It seems so absolutely simplistic yet is so very important. If we believe that the pencil with scripture on it holds more spiritual value then we become dualist in our beliefs and limit God in what can bring absolute glory to Him.

Furthermore, spirituality is not dependant upon what is written or imprinted on something, but our actions with that object. As C.S. Lewis stated:

God judges by their moral choices. When a neurotic who has a pathological horror of cats forces himself to pick up a cat for some good reason, it is quite possible that in God's eyes he has shown more courage than a healthy man may have shown in winning the V.C.

Thus, our actions with a certain item also determine the "spirituality" of that item. So no object is above the other simply because of what is printed upon it but rather what is done with that object. While all objects point towards the glory of God, we can taint those objects if not used properly.

Thus, don't look at an object as simply an object, but as a testament to the glory of God.

[pretzelperson]

I think the premis for the question in flawed. A store that sells a pencil with John 3:16 on it will likely only sell a pencil with John 3:16 written on it and not offer a "plain" pencil.

Also, could you fit the whole verse on one little pencil. I mean, it is quite a few words.

The problem with this is you are noting objections and asking questions that are non-issues. I simply fiat that the store is selling both types of pencils and that the verse fits on the pencil. They are non-issues because they have no inherent value to the discussion. The point stands regardless of the truth behind the hypothetical situation. The choice is still there in the paradox and whether it would be realistic in the actual world does not hold any weight what so ever.

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The simple fact that I state my objections as issues makes them issues for you to address if you wish me to provide value to your hypothetical situation. I assume you want me, even expect me, to bring value to the discussion because your act of posting the question. To be an effective tool for discussion a hypothetical situation must be able to be understood in the bounds of some sort of agreed reality. For the sake of discussion, I chose to deny the implied shared and agreed to reality of your hypothetical (That two such pencils would actually exist in the same store and that you could fit the verse found in John 3:16 on a pencil) You may feel free do dismiss my commets as non-issues, but they still remain as legitimate issues for the purpose of this discussion, if the discussion is to progress. From a standpoint of persuasive theory, you must address my objections in order for me to hear your message.

[apothanein kerdos]

Apparnetly you do not understand the idea and truth of fiat within a given hypothetical. Futhermore, arguing this futile point simply detracts from the actual point and conversation. If you choose to ignore an entire point based upon your ignorance of how hypotheticals work, that is your own problem and not mine. I am not here to change minds but simply to offer an alternative paradigm. Since is the case, have a nice day.

[Ovedya]

You are at a store and see two pencils. They are same price, quality, same in every way except one has John 3:16 on it and the other is just blank. Which one do you buy and, more importantly, why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, I'll bite. I buy the John 3:16 pencil.

Why: The pencil with John 3:16 on it can be used as a tool to spread the gospel of Christ. In fact, the more the pencil is sharpened, the more opportunity there will be to talk about the Lord: At first it says "John 3:16;" folks might not ask any questions. But as it goes further and further down "ohn 3:16...n 3:16...:16," etc. people are likely to ask, "What does that say on your pencil?" This gives you an opportunity to say, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes into Him would not perish, but would have eternal life."

"Preach the gospel always..."

[tsth]

Let me go ahead and run with this because it's close enough to the paradigm that I want to address. Does a pencil with a scripture on it hold more inherent value than a blank one? While many are inclined to say yes, the simple answer is no. Both hold equal value and relevancy to Christ. Neither one is more inclined to be a witnessing tool than the other. While one has a scripture upon it that directly reveals the work of God, the other is proof of God and glorifies God. A regular pencil glorifies God in that it stands as a testament to the human mind that He has created. A mind that knew how to take lead, put it within wood, and make a writing utincil. It seems so absolutely simplistic yet is so very important. If we believe that the pencil with scripture on it holds more spiritual value then we become dualist in our beliefs and limit God in what can bring absolute glory to Him.

Furthermore, spirituality is not dependant upon what is written or imprinted on something, but our actions with that object. As C.S. Lewis stated:

I would just like to say that it is easy to misread the question. I don't know that it would have more spiritual value than a plain one to someone else, but for me it would. I happen to love God's Word. It's pretty simple. So, if I had to choose in regard to my own personal choice, then for me, it would have more spiritual value, merely because it refers to God's Word. That is valuable to me, I would rather see God's Word, than not. But, then again, the question was over my head!

In His Love,

Suzanne

[IslandRose]

Neither pencil has any spiritual value except in the way it is used.

If I use a pencil with John 3:16 to write a treatise on why There is no God, and how evolution should be the belief system of all people, that pencil has been a tool of darkness, no matter what is imprinted on it. I can take a plain pencil and write a letter to my friend giving a gospel message and my plain little pencil has been a tool to spread the gospel without ever having been seen by the recipient of the letter.

All the "things" around us are temporal. They have no inherent spiritual value unless they are used to the glory of God.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

[Guest Thomas I believe]

"Preach the gospel always..."

Amen !!!!

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

I would leave the John 3:16 pencil there and pray that someone who is lost will buy it .

[RustyAngeL]

I buy the one with John 3:16. Good topic starter.

[tsth]

Neither pencil has any spiritual value except in the way it is used. 

If I use a pencil with John 3:16 to write a treatise on why  There is no God, and how evolution should be the belief system of all people, that pencil has been a tool of darkness, no matter what is imprinted on it.  I can take a plain pencil and write a letter to my friend giving a gospel message and my plain little pencil has been a tool to spread the gospel without ever having been seen by the recipient of the letter.

All the "things" around us are temporal.  They have no inherent spiritual value unless they are used to the glory of God.

2Co 4:18  While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Awesome answer IslandRose!!!

But, I still say that I would buy it just for personal encouragement/reminder.

In His Love,

Suzanne