High minimum wage doesnt work after all

[Burning_Ember]

That's not how I defined a fair wage.    A fair wage is what YOU agree to be paid by the employer.   If the employer offers you $8.00 an hour and you agree to that, then getting paid $8.00 is a fair wage.   You cannot agree to a wage and then accuse the employer of cheating you if he is paying what you agreed to.

The employer almost always sets the wage. It's completely possible to be paid $8/hr and not believe that is a fair wage to be paid. No part of agreeing to get paid a certain amount requires one to believe that it is a fair wage.

[Guest shiloh357]

If you agree to the wage the employer offers then you have no complaint.   You agreed it to it.  If you felt it was unfair, then you should not have agreed to the wage. If you no longer like what employer offers, go get a higher paying job, or stop complaining and whining.

[Burning_Ember]

If you agree to the wage the employer offers then you have no complaint.   You agreed it to it.  If you felt it was unfair, then you should not have agreed to the wage. If you no longer like what employer offers, go get a higher paying job, or stop complaining and whining.

People are capable of more complicated thought processes than that.

[Guest shiloh357]

It's not a matter of a lesser or complicated thought process, at all.   Implied in your voluntary acceptance and agreement to a given wage is that it is fair.  If someone offered me $2.00 an hour, I would likely not agree to such a wage because it doesn't meet my needs, and probably is not adequate or fair compensation for the kind of effort the job requires.

 

In addition, "fair wage" cuts both ways, as I have stated before.  It is not just about what is fair for the employee, but fair for the employer who has to juggle bills along with payroll and has a limited pool of money to with which to work.   He has to budget his money.  I realize that liberals are allergic to the concept of a budget, but that's how it works out here in the adult world.

 

Payroll is budgeted just like everything else.   You can't just hand out money like candy at a parade.   You have to know how many people you can afford to hire and what you can afford to hire them for. 

 

Fair wage is also determined by the kind of work you are doing.  If you are flipping burgers, you are not going to make as much money as the guy who is out on the highway laying asphalt for the Dept. of Transportation.  

 

Liberals see the phrase "fair wage" and they think it means, "living wage."   A fair wage is simply the proper level of compensation for the kind of work one his hired to do.

 

Liberals who believe in "social justice"   live in fantasy world were the part time fry cook at McDonalds is making $40,000 a year or something.   The Left doesn't really understand economics, or they just ignore it.  

[udx]

Raising minimum wage so suddenly, would hurt the small business the most, Contribute to more higher percentage of big business in the economy. Small business do not have as much flexibility to adjust and absorb such a big shock change in expenses. Big businesses have lower cost of doing business because of economy of scale compare to small business, minimum wage laws would basically force these small businesses out of the market.

 

When people talk about 'fair wage', most people only consider how it affects big businesses but does not consider how it affect the broader market and everyone in general. People take the mentality, all company make big profits all the time, they ought to 'share' that loot. The reason we have more and more big businesses and reduction of small business is caused by increased regulations and minimum wage laws.

[Guest shiloh357]

Udx is correct.

 

When raise the min wage quickly, as Seattle WA  the result is nothing but higher prices on everything, and it means less employment in that employers may have to lay off employees, or reduce hours.   Potentially, an employee who was working 45-40 hours a week at say, $7.00 an hour with benefits  is now working 20 hours and no benefits or is no longer employed at all.   In  some cases, small businesses have to close their doors and then several people are out of work.  

[tigger398]

Min. wages are supposed to go up a little at a time, not a big leap like there trying to do. If they try to force that amount on business that don't have that money. It can close businesses down. I mean lots of them. I think majority of people work in small business.

[Guest shiloh357]

That is true, and they should be based on merit and affordability.   You earn raises, you don't deserve them automatically.    How a company gives raises is at their discretion.  Companies typically don't mind giving raises to good employees who make the company better.    

 

But we live in an entitlement culture that thinks that everyone owes me something, no one owes me anything.    A person appreciates things that they have to earn, rather than what is simply given to them.  

 

I am not entitled to anything.  I earned my raises, I earned the right to be an employee.   I showed up on time with a good attitude. I worked my job and I didn't take extra time on breaks or lunches.  I was ready to work over time if the boss needed me too.  It was hot, dirty, filthy work, but I wanted to do it.  I did my job right the first time an none of my transmissions failed when they were put on the test/evaluation machine.

 

I would also point out that it is not really about how much money you make;  its about what you do with what you have.   I can make a dollar stretch. I can, if I have to, live on $20 in groceries a week.  I am the king of frugality when I need to be.   I don't waste money on booze and cigarettes.  I don't buy frivolous junk.  If you don't have any discipline, no amount of money will ever suffice.

 

A lot of poverty in the US is due to lack of discipline and poor decision making.   If a person is disciplined, they can get out of poverty.  The ONLY person stopping anyone from being a success in the United States is themselves.   You can be your own worst enemy.   It's you against you.

[thereselittleflower]

I am not saying that the wage is ONLY wrapped up in the hourly pay.  It includes the "Hidden paycheck"  i.e.  benefits, vacation, insurance, etc.  That would include breaks and meal time.  If an employee can demonstrate that he is not getting what he agreed to then the wage isn't fair, then he can claim he is not being treated fairly.

 

 

I am glad we agree on this in principle.   I would say, however, that its not a matter of getting what's agreed to.  Breaks and lunches are a matter of law.    If employers treated their employees fairly naturally, there would be no need for such laws to begin with.  But too many employers denied their employees basic needs and a fair wage, so the government stepped in and now we have this confusing mess to deal with.

 

I was appalled to find out that in the case of servers, those on the west coast get full minimum wage, or better, and tips are on top of that, while places in the eastern US they get paid only half or less of minimum wage and have to rely on tips to make up the rest - this leads to all sorts of abuse by employers, including sexual abuse by employers and customers.  The very low wages give employers more control, and many abuse it.

[Guest shiloh357]

It's not really all that confusing at all.   What's confusing is liberals who don't understand how the economy and basic budgeting principles work and ignorant followers who think that companies have money growing on trees.

 

Around here, waiters and waitresses get $2.00 an hour plus tips and they make more than people who work entry level jobs for $9.00 an hour.   A friend mine's wife brings nearly $100 a night home in tips four days a week from the Olive Garden.

 

So they are not getting cheated by anyone.