The Lord Jesus Christ

[Qnts2]

Shabbat shalom, Qnts2.

 

...

 

 

Well, you just proved that you do not know basic Hebrew grammar. Adonai is plural. Adoni is singular.

 

Just a hint. Hebrew uses suffixes for pronouns. The suffix will indicate not only the pronoun but also whether the noun is plural or singular. Adonai means literally my lords but when combined with singular verbs which by the grammatical rules must match the noun, when referring to God, the verb is singular which is unique for a reference to the one true God. Also, while Elochim is plural, so is Elochenu. Elochenu has a pronomial suffix and means literally 'our gods' but almost always refers to our God and is used with a singular verb or adverb to indicate when it refers to God.

 

I told you why I used the Shema. To show the common Jewish spelling of Adonai. I also used the Shema because it is the best known Jewish prayer. There is no rule against using a non-common spelling since it is a transliteration as long as it approximates the ennunciation of the word, but Jewish people who are familiar with Hebrew transliteration are used to Adonai.  

 

 

Okay, the Shema first: I can overlook this faux pas, because I understand now where you are coming from. It’s just that I wish you had used a verse of Scripture or another such prayer that actually used the true word “Adonai” (“Adonaay”) rather than the Tetragrammaton set to the vowel pointing for “Adonai.” So, let’s just set that aside.

 

Apparently, you’re saying that this is an instant of the plural form of “Adon” (“Aadown”) in the CONSTRUCT STATE before adding the “-yod" ending for the first person singular pronoun, right? I get it now. In that way, I will admit that “Adonaay” is a plural word. (I had forgotten that rule of plurals.) So, I’ve proven that no one is perfect, not even "Retrobyter.” My upbringing was not focused on the Hebrew language, and I had to learn it on my own much later. It’s not that I “do not know basic Hebrew grammar”; it’s that I don’t know basic Hebrew grammar WELL. When what you said reminded me of this fact, I looked it up and there IS one such case in Genesis 19:2 where the word “Adonay” (with a second patach instead of a qamets) was translated “my lords” in the KJV.

 

Now, lest you become haughty in your victory, remember that “Qnts2” isn’t perfect, either. Notice above how many times you spell “God” in transliterated Hebrew as “Elochim” and “our God" in transliterated Hebrew as “Elochenu?” The spelling of the word is with a “hei,” not a “chet.” “Hei” is usually transliterated as an “h” while “chet” is usually transliterated as a “ch” (and sometimes, just an “h”). So, the transliterations should be “Elohim” and “Eloheinu,” but that, too, is a minor point. 

 

Can we just get beyond all this and be friends as well as brothers?

 

We’re off track.

 

Just a note, Adonai is not the construct state. It is Adon with a pronomial suffix. 

 

I have no problem dropping this. It started with you commenting on my spelling of Adonai.

 

And I am not fluent in Hebrew. I was a principal of a synagogue Hebrew school and married to the Rabbi, before accepting Jesus. As a female, in an Orthodox setting, females did not get Bat Mitzvah'd. That was a Reform thing. I learned some Hebrew by use while growing up, and expanded my knowledge out of necessity and more exposure as a Rebbitzen. 

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, shiloh357.

 

Retro, I have not lied at all.   Jesus IS called God in Scripture in numerous places.

 

In addition,  "Son of God"   actually means that Jesus is God.  It is a statement of Jesus' deity.   So yeah, I can "rumble"  if you like.  I am better at defending the deity of Jesus than a false teacher like you can attack the deity of Jesus.

 

Yes, you have lied because you do not know me! You have lied about me! And, I AM your brother (if YOU are justified by God, that is, which I am assuming at this point you are), and as such, by attacking me, you’ve also attacked my Master, who stands up for me! Be EXTREMELY CAREFUL where you tread with this! God DOES stick up for His own, even against those who are also His! God can ... and WILL ... "take you to the woodshed” if He has to do so! 

 

Romans 14:6-13

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

KJV

 

If you want to have a go, start a new thread, and please be kind in the title.

[enoob57]

 Jesus as God limited Himself as God to become a man and never ceased being God by the limitations He

Himself laid aside but as a man did exactly as God would do as man in The fullness of The Father-
John 14:9
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you,
and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen
me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us
the Father?
KJV
understanding that The Father 'IS' Spirit and will never be presented within boundary we then understand
the created essence was only for that of beginning and pointing to The God Head... Rom 1:18-22
Love, Steven

Edited August 8, 2015 by enoob57

[Guest shiloh357]

No, Retro, I am not lying, you have, in more than one thread denied Jesus as God.  As such, you are not a believer.  The deity of Jesus is a core doctrine of the Christian faith.  It is not a peripheral issue.

 

The Bible presents Jesus as God in both Old and New Testaments and there is simply no way around it.   You cannot reject Jesus as God and yet claim him as Savior.

 

I don't need to know you to read your posts and your repeated denials that Jesus is God.   Such as over here in this thread and post #36>>:  

[thereselittleflower]

 

Shabbat shalom, shiloh357.

 

Retro, I have not lied at all.   Jesus IS called God in Scripture in numerous places.

 

In addition,  "Son of God"   actually means that Jesus is God.  It is a statement of Jesus' deity.   So yeah, I can "rumble"  if you like.  I am better at defending the deity of Jesus than a false teacher like you can attack the deity of Jesus.

 

Yes, you have lied because you do not know me! You have lied about me! And, I AM your brother (if YOU are justified by God, that is, which I am assuming at this point you are), and as such, by attacking me, you’ve also attacked my Master, who stands up for me! Be EXTREMELY CAREFUL where you tread with this! God DOES stick up for His own, even against those who are also His! God can ... and WILL ... "take you to the woodshed” if He has to do so! 

 

Romans 14:6-13

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

KJV

 

If you want to have a go, start a new thread, and please be kind in the title.

 

 

Shiloh is not listening.

 

Those who judge others will be judged in the same way.

 

 

I pity and feel fear and dread for those who forgo the examination of the heart by God before He passes judgement on their words and actions, because of the manner in which they have judged others;  for when they judge others on words and actions without looking at the heart which they cannot see, then they are judging the heart of another which they cannot possibly know, for only God can know, they are indeed asking for God to judge them forgoing the examination of their own heart.

[Retrobyter]

Shabbat shalom, Qnts2.

 

...

 

Just a note, Adonai is not the construct state. It is Adon with a pronomial suffix. 

 

I have no problem dropping this. It started with you commenting on my spelling of Adonai.

 

And I am not fluent in Hebrew. I was a principal of a synagogue Hebrew school and married to the Rabbi, before accepting Jesus. As a female, in an Orthodox setting, females did not get Bat Mitzvah'd. That was a Reform thing. I learned some Hebrew by use while growing up, and expanded my knowledge out of necessity and more exposure as a Rebbitzen. 

 

 

Okay. SIMILAR to the construct state in construction, then. Like I said, I don’t know basic Hebrew grammar well. So, we can keep each other on track and learn from one another. I would appreciate your input whenever you see a mistake.

[Guest shiloh357]

Litteflower,

 

The truth is the truth.   I have no problem being judged by the same standard I am operating under.  I have nothing to hide.   I am as much as open book before you as I am before God.  I am not the one teaching heresy, and denying the essential God-hood of Jesus.

 

The work of Jesus on the cross was not the work of a mere man dying for our sins.   I mere man could not pay for our sin.   Only God can do that and Jesus as God paid for our sins on the cross.

 

Retrobyter would have us not believe the Gospel and rather believe that a mere man was good enough to pay for all of the sin of all mankind.   That is antithetical to the Gospel, and heretical. 

 

What I find interesting is how someone like you who breathes such horrific anti-Semitic views in other threads is defending a heretic in this thread.  Rather amusing...

[enoob57]

Litteflower,

 

The truth is the truth.   I have no problem being judged by the same standard I am operating under.  I have nothing to hide.   I am as much as open book before you as I am before God.  I am not the one teaching heresy, and denying the essential God-hood of Jesus.

 

The work of Jesus on the cross was not the work of a mere man dying for our sins.   I mere man could not pay for our sin.   Only God can do that and Jesus as God paid for our sins on the cross.

 

Retrobyter would have us not believe the Gospel and rather believe that a mere man was good enough to pay for all of the sin of all mankind.   That is antithetical to the Gospel, and heretical. 

 

What I find interesting is how someone like you who breathes such horrific anti-Semitic views in other threads is defending a heretic in this thread.  Rather amusing...

birds of a feather....

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, shiloh357, and happy Resurrection Day (haYowm Ri’shown, the “Head Day” or Sunday).

 

Litteflower,

 

The truth is the truth.   I have no problem being judged by the same standard I am operating under.  I have nothing to hide.   I am as much as open book before you as I am before God.  I am not the one teaching heresy, and denying the essential God-hood of Jesus.

 

The work of Jesus on the cross was not the work of a mere man dying for our sins.   A mere man could not pay for our sin.   Only God can do that and Jesus as God paid for our sins on the cross.

 

Retrobyter would have us not believe the Gospel and rather believe that a mere man was good enough to pay for all of the sin of all mankind.   That is antithetical to the Gospel, and heretical. 

 

What I find interesting is how someone like you who breathes such horrific anti-Semitic views in other threads is defending a heretic in this thread.  Rather amusing...

 

The truth IS the truth, but your INTERPRETATION of what is truth is WAY OFF! I am NOT teaching heresy; I’m expounding upon what you call “the essential God-hood” of Yeshua`. You would have us believe that there is absolutely no difference between Yeshua` and the Father! THERE IS a difference! If there weren’t a difference then one of them would be redundant and superfluous! When Yeshua` taught that He and His Father were one, it’s the same “one-ness” as that between a man and his wife! A man and his wife don’t literally become one bigger body! They are still two people, but they have a connection - an intimacy - between them that is impossible to break!

 

Yeshua` DID pay for our sins on the cross, and He could not have done that if He wasn’t sinless! And, He couldn’t have been sinless if He were merely a man! I TOTALLY believe that Yesha`yahu the prophet (Isaiah) was talking about Yeshua` in Isa. 53, but notice that TWO are involved!

 

Isaiah 53:7-12

7 He (Yeshua`) was oppressed, and he (Yeshua`) was afflicted, yet he (Yeshua`) opened not his mouth: he (Yeshua`) is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he (Yeshua`) openeth not his (Yeshua`s) mouth.

8 He (Yeshua`) was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his (Yeshua`s) generation? for he (Yeshua`) was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he (Yeshua`) stricken.

9 And he (Yeshua`) made his (Yeshua`s) grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his (Yeshua`s) death; because he (Yeshua`) had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his (Yeshua`s) mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD (God His Father) to bruise him (Yeshua`); he (God His Father) hath put him (Yeshua`) to grief: when thou (YOU singular, the reader) shalt make his (Yeshua`s) soul (literally, “breather,” i.e., his breathing body) an offering for sin, he (God His Father) shall see his (Yeshua`s) seed (YOU the reader), he (God His Father) shall prolong his (Yeshua`s) days (or possibly the days of Yeshua`s seed), and the pleasure of the LORD (God His Father) shall prosper in his (Yeshua`s) hand.

11 He (God His Father) shall see of the travail of his (Yeshua`s) soul (literally, “breather,” i.e., his breathing body), and shall be satisfied: by his (God-His-Father’s) knowledge shall my righteous servant (Yeshua`) justify many; for he (Yeshua`) shall bear their (the many’s) iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him (Yeshua`) a portion with the great, and he (Yeshua`) shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he (Yeshua`) hath poured out his (Yeshua`a) soul (literally, “breather,” i.e., his breathing body) unto death: and he (Yeshua`) was numbered with the transgressors; and he (Yeshua`) bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

KJV

 

However, the PERSON to whom this passage refers, Yeshua`, had to be CONTAINED within His (Yeshua`s) body, and that CONTAINMENT (the INCARNATION, the state of putting God “in flesh") LIMITED HIM (Yeshua`)! As the Word, He was co-equal with God (John 1:1-5); as the Son of God, Yeshua` was/is subservient to God His Father (1 Cor. 15:20-28)! That’s not said to put Him down (to blaspheme Him); that’s just the way it was and still is! HOWEVER, God (His Father) has also exalted Him to a status greater than ANYONE ELSE ON THE EARTH THROUGHOUT HUMAN HISTORY (Phil. 2:5-11)! God (His Father) has committed unto Him (Yeshua`, His Messiah - His Anointed One - His Selected Representative) all judgment (John 5:19-27)! Even when He has returned, become Isra’el’s King, and become the King of kings (the World Emperor) as promised throughout prophecy, He will still be subservient to His Father in the end after He has put down all of His enemies (1 Cor. 15:28)! That’s what the Scriptures say, and that’s what I believe.

 

Anything more than this is from a theological argument.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, simplejeff.

 

all of the redeemed in Christ Jesus believers are not listening to the voice that is not Jesus, the Good Shepherd,

not just Shiloh.   the truth and evidence entirely is showing

that the rcc is the false church,

and everything posted promoting or defending it is sinful.

 

Does that include the doctrine of the Trinity, first propounded by the RCC?