do you believe that the first white horse has been released already

[Last Daze]

 

And when the false christs and false prophets prophesied by Jesus in Matt. 24 get on their high horses and ride...we have the First Seal fulfilled.

Frankly, I see a lot of both of those types these days...much more than I can remember ever seeing in my 65 years.

I agree and think it is even more broad than that.  Consider this verse carefully:

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.  Matthew 24:5

To paraphrase this verse for clarity...Many who claim to be Christians shall come, and they will even profess that Jesus is the Christ, yet their doctrine deceives many.

Most people see this verse as referring to false christs but it doesn't make sense that they would both "come in Christ's name" AND claim to be Christ.  There certainly will be false christs but this speaks to a more broad falling away as I see it, a war on truth that leads to false teachers and apostasy.  The first seal rider leads the charge.

So, then you are saying that the first seal has already been opened?  Because this phenomenon describes the mystery of lawlessness that was already at work when the apostles were preached about the resurrection of Christ and the forgiveness of sins (2 Thessalonians 2:7).  

I think this is one of the challenging things about understanding the seals is that there does have to be an identifying feature that differentiates itself from ordinary life.  I always consider the verse that describes where Jesus really rode on a donkey to mark the fulfillment of the prophecy (Zechariah 9:9; Matthew 21:7-8) as a significant even for comparison.  There has to be some sort of identifying feature to distinguish life before the fulfillment of prophecy from life afterward.  

Therefore, what you are suggesting as the definition of the first seal, which I don't disagree with, has already happened.  Then, the challenge becomes finding the next distinguishing characteristic that will differentiate the description of war within the second seal, from the history that has always included testimony of wars and death by the sword (Revelation 6:3-4).  

Whether that doesn't seem necessary to you for whatever reason, the fact remains that what both of you are describing suggests that the first seal was opened a long time ago.  Therefore, this would suggest that there is a significant gap between the opening of the 1st seal and the 2nd if I am correct in assuming that you would not agree that the second has already been opened.  

Peace.   

 

I believe that the first seal encompasses more than just the war on truth.  The rider of the white horse is given a crown, a bow, and goes forth conquering and to conquer.  I believe this white horse rider to be the fallen angel that is seen in Rev 13 and 17 as the beast with seven heads and ten horns.  The description of this fallen angel in Rev 17 indicates that his activity was interrupted; "was, is not, is to come".  It was interrupted because he was thrown into the abyss, a holding place of evil spirit beings.  I believe his release from the abyss per Rev 17:8 coincides with the first seal being opened.

When this fallen angel was previously active, he brought about the Roman Empire as seen in Daniel 2 as the legs of iron.  When he is released from the abyss he will cause another world kingdom to exist as indicated by the feet of iron and clay in Daniel 2.  Since his release and subsequent activities are in the spiritual realm, we can't say with certainty when that happened.  However, we can see the effect of his activity in the natural realm.  I believe that it's evidenced by the formation of the global government U.N. which shortly thereafter passed a resolution creating the state of Israel, both of which are highly significant prophetic events.  The U.N. fits the description of the feet of iron and clay in Daniel 2 and many end time prophecies concern Israel.

So, yes, I do think the first seal has been opened.  My guess is sometime in the early 1900s.

Why was the fallen angel prince who spawned Rome cast into the abyss in the first place?  My guess is for the spreading of the gospel around the world (the things which are).  After that was accomplished then the seals could be opened because they take place afterward.

As I see it, the first seal being opened already is evidenced by the formation of the U.N. world government followed by the creation of the state of Israel by that government and also by the global war on truth leading to apostasy.  All of these result from the activities of the fallen angel prince.

The second seal I believe speaks of a specific time of war which begins with the destruction of the world's capital per Rev 17:18 and includes the ripping out of the three horns per Daniel 7.  It ends when the false prophet (who rips out the three horns) calls fire down from heaven and is seen as invincible.  But that's another thread.

Even though the seals are opened in spiritual realm, I do believe that there are specific, identifiable events manifested in the natural realm as a result.

[MorningGlory]

 

Maybe you missed the part where all of these three things line up and happen during what Revelation chapter 6 refers to as the sixth seal, "The seven years will more than likely only represent the time of the beast and the witnesses characterized by sackcloth (Revelation 6:12; Revelation 11:3); and the reference to 1260 days (Revelation 11:3; Revelation 13:5) places all of this taking place at the same time when the sixth seal is opened.  But, the seals will have already been opened."

Maybe next time you refer to someone as being deluded you will be inspired to show that you are not by using scripture to defend your position.  You don't have to agree with me, but disagreeing and insulting are two different things.     

If you don't agree, keep the insults to yourself.  Yell into your pillow.  Why not tell our father in Heaven what you think of me and see what sort of discernment He can give you before you go calling people deluded as though you have some anointing to speak for Him in regard to others.  Maybe you should check with him first and then journal before you go calling people deluded.  Then, if you find you have a legitimate counter argument using scripture to defend your position, let it out. 

You didn't quote anyone, Esther.  Who  are you responding to?

[Esther4:14]

 

 

You didn't quote a)nyone, Esther.  Who  are you responding to?

:)  It looks like they were removed.  They were from San.  It looks like they are still in the post by Fresno Joe though.  I am going to delete it.  Thanks for pointing that out. 

[Last Daze]

Last daze, speculations like this was the reason I never liked reading of Revelations and Book of Daniel before the Apocalypse started to happen. What is the point of making absolutely inconceivable relations between imaginary facts in the spiritual realm that you cannot know about. Both texts read like wild imaginary if you don't really know how symbols and events start to realize and happen one after another or in parallelism however both texts have strong catches with reality that you somehow missed except for the creation of Israel. Contrary to what some people think both text are not subject of any kind of interpretation you may find scarcely plausible but is a true consequence of undoutful events in 7years time. The texts have strong hold to reality. Reading you I am starting to be afraid that it is going to be always  text that cannot be understood at all by s

 

There is a scriptural basis for what I wrote.  If you want to bring up specific points and discuss them, fine.  A lot of us here see things differently.  If you're going to disagree with someone you should at least provide the scriptural reasoning for doing so.  If you can't support your assumptions with scripture then why should I, or anyone else, listen to them?

[WilliamL]

When I get on my high horse, I usually find Jesus rides off on his donkey

And when the false christs and false prophets prophesied by Jesus in Matt. 24 get on their high horses and ride...we have the First Seal fulfilled.

Frankly, I see a lot of both of those types these days...much more than I can remember ever seeing in my 65 years.

I agree and think it is even more broad than that.  Consider this verse carefully:

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.  Matthew 24:5

To paraphrase this verse for clarity...Many who claim to be Christians shall come, and they will even profess that Jesus is the Christ, yet their doctrine deceives many.

Christ means Anointed One: it can be, but is not necessarily, a reference to the Christian/Jewish Messiah. Therefore, when people like ISIS's al Baghdadi claim to be the Caliph of the whole Muslim world, he is also claiming to be an anointed one. So yes, this verse has broader potential connotations than people generally realize, both within and without the Church.

So, then you are saying that the first seal has already been opened?  ...

I think this is one of the challenging things about understanding the seals is that there does have to be an identifying feature that differentiates itself from ordinary life.  ... There has to be some sort of identifying feature to distinguish life before the fulfillment of prophecy from life afterward.  

Therefore, what you are suggesting as the definition of the first seal, which I don't disagree with, has already happened.  Then, the challenge becomes finding the next distinguishing characteristic that will differentiate the description of war within the second seal...

Whether that doesn't seem necessary to you for whatever reason, the fact remains that what both of you are describing suggests that the first seal was opened a long time ago.  ...

Not for me. As I pointed out re: the Second Seal:

"The sword of the 2nd Seal is a machaira:

1. a large knife, used for killing animals and cutting up flesh

2. a small sword, as distinguished from a large sword

-- the same type of weapon being used by ISIS and ISIS-wannabees, to behead and/or butcher innocents. Which actions are leading the whole earth into a Middle-Eastern followed by worldwide war."

There is a theory afloat (voiced on trunews) that the First Seal was opened with the ascension of Obama in 2007/8, whose devotees call "the One," among other such titles of reverence. Actor Jamie Fox said "give honor to God and our Lord and Savior Barack Obama." Erdogan of Turkey also began hinting at his other-than-worldly preeminence in 2007.

The Obama administration, often in cahoots with Erdogan and other Middle Eastern Muslim leaders, instigated the "Arab Spring" beginning in 2011, which was the proximate cause for the organized terrorist chaos ongoing in the Middle East.

According to the 7 Times prophecy of Leviticus 26, 7 Times [7 x 360 = 2520 360-day years = 2484 solar years] from the ascension of Haman the Agagite/Amalekite comes to around 2007/8.

Again, somthing to think about...

[Esther4:14]

When I get on my high horse, I usually find Jesus rides off on his donkey

And when the false christs and false prophets prophesied by Jesus in Matt. 24 get on their high horses and ride...we have the First Seal fulfilled.

Frankly, I see a lot of both of those types these days...much more than I can remember ever seeing in my 65 years.

I agree and think it is even more broad than that.  Consider this verse carefully:

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.  Matthew 24:5

To paraphrase this verse for clarity...Many who claim to be Christians shall come, and they will even profess that Jesus is the Christ, yet their doctrine deceives many.

Christ means Anointed One: it can be, but is not necessarily, a reference to the Christian/Jewish Messiah. Therefore, when people like ISIS's al Baghdadi claim to be the Caliph of the whole Muslim world, he is also claiming to be an anointed one. So yes, this verse has broader potential connotations than people generally realize, both within and without the Church.

So, then you are saying that the first seal has already been opened?  ...

I think this is one of the challenging things about understanding the seals is that there does have to be an identifying feature that differentiates itself from ordinary life.  ... There has to be some sort of identifying feature to distinguish life before the fulfillment of prophecy from life afterward.  

Therefore, what you are suggesting as the definition of the first seal, which I don't disagree with, has already happened.  Then, the challenge becomes finding the next distinguishing characteristic that will differentiate the description of war within the second seal...

Whether that doesn't seem necessary to you for whatever reason, the fact remains that what both of you are describing suggests that the first seal was opened a long time ago.  ...

Not for me. As I pointed out re: the Second Seal:

"The sword of the 2nd Seal is a machaira:

1. a large knife, used for killing animals and cutting up flesh

2. a small sword, as distinguished from a large sword

-- the same type of weapon being used by ISIS and ISIS-wannabees, to behead and/or butcher innocents. Which actions are leading the whole earth into a Middle-Eastern followed by worldwide war."

There is a theory afloat (voiced on trunews) that the First Seal was opened with the ascension of Obama in 2007/8, whose devotees call "the One," among other such titles of reverence. Actor Jamie Fox said "give honor to God and our Lord and Savior Barack Obama." Erdogan of Turkey also began hinting at his other-than-worldly preeminence in 2007.

The Obama administration, often in cahoots with Erdogan and other Middle Eastern Muslim leaders, instigated the "Arab Spring" beginning in 2011, which was the proximate cause for the organized terrorist chaos ongoing in the Middle East.

According to the 7 Times prophecy of Leviticus 26, 7 Times [7 x 360 = 2520 360-day years = 2484 solar years] from the ascension of Haman the Agagite/Amalekite comes to around 2007/8.

Again, somthing to think about...

I agree that the Obama administration is involved in this organized terrorist chaos.  It is documented in the book "Our Global Neighborhood The Report on the Commission of Global Governance that many countries have been funding the greenhouse growing terrorists in the middle east since the end of the cold war.  Although, the US and Russia account for 69 percent of this donation of weapons to the middle east (pg. 14).  

However, the only reason that we know this terrorist propaganda, is because of media spreading it like a wild fire.  

"Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!" (James 3:5-8).  

Otherwise, what happens in the middle east would stay in the middle east.  Just like it was propaganda that helped rally an army for Hitler.  Just like the Jacobin propaganda helped rally people against the monarchy, and then they started chopping off the heads of people who didn't agree with them with a guillotine.  

They all used weapons.  They all promoted violence.  However, it was the tongue that was the biggest sword of them all.  

Peace

"There is that speaketh like the piercings of a sword: but the tongue of the wise health" (Proverbs 12:18).  

 

[Diaste]

I really believe that we see the spirit of the white horse has been opened, due to the condition of the world and its evil violence that is being seen through the people and the groups ,and the events taking place, and of what Obama has spoken ,he peaks right now as he is the one to be worshipped,  in his statements and the world is revolving around his decisions, unless he is the one that prepares the way for the lawless one in the end,  I will also agree but this is my opinion, that the rising sun of the west is the muslims El madi the prophet of the muslim movement that sits on the white horse according to there belief, I think it makes sense , this fits all together, ,even though it points to the evil one coming ultimately out of turkey in the bible, but this is my thought only of what I see it as.i am open to other opinions if I am wrong thank you

Wouldn't the antichrist have to be ruling then since the white horse is the antichrist?

I don't know. The rider on the white horse has a bow and he goes forth conquering and to conquer and so it sounds like an ongoing thing, this conquering the white horse and rider are doing. It actually could be happening now on a small scale and grow to the much larger proportion we all see coming. I also see the first 4 seals as the beginning of events that have no end. The rider on the white horse continues to conquer for the entire 70th week, well that is until the Lord returns. Peace removed from the earth is also likely to begin at the conquering acts of the white rider. Peace will be gone until the Lord returns. Famine and economic hardships will also undoubtedly be the norm for the reign of the beast(white rider).

The seals could very well be opened and/or opening as we speak, with the ride of the four horsemen just beginning and building to a climax. I mean, none of us thought that a seal would open and instantly the world would be ruled by an evil murderous tyrant, did we?. Nor did we think that we would go to bed after the evening news one night and when our alarms went off in the morning, peace would be gone from the earth, the entire worlds economy would collapse and the planet would be plunged into famine. Or did we?

I'm pretty sure all of that is on the build as we can see every day from the news. The scripture is telling us what general world conditions would be like, during some time frame, with the first four seals.

[Diaste]

When I get on my high horse, I usually find Jesus rides off on his donkey

And when the false christs and false prophets prophesied by Jesus in Matt. 24 get on their high horses and ride...we have the First Seal fulfilled.

Frankly, I see a lot of both of those types these days...much more than I can remember ever seeing in my 65 years.

Think about this ..

Revelation 6:4(a) And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Matthew 24:7(a) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

Yes there have always been wars, but this red horse has a specific mission .. to taking peace from the earth .. and since the peace is a world peace being taken away (take peace from the earth) then the result of this horses riding has to, by his very mission specs alone,  must lead to global unrest .. for peace is taken from the earth as a consequence of his riding ..

The sword of the 2nd Seal is a machaira:

1. a large knife, used for killing animals and cutting up flesh

2. a small sword, as distinguished from a large sword

-- the same type of weapon being used by ISIS and ISIS-wannabees, to behead and/or butcher innocents. Which actions are leading the whole earth into a Middle-Eastern followed by worldwide war.

3rd Seal: famine caused by an economic crisis, leaving people destitute. On the immediate horizon.

 

Yes. Islam is the new power. They simply await their leader.

[Serving]

 

When I get on my high horse, I usually find Jesus rides off on his donkey

And when the false christs and false prophets prophesied by Jesus in Matt. 24 get on their high horses and ride...we have the First Seal fulfilled.

Frankly, I see a lot of both of those types these days...much more than I can remember ever seeing in my 65 years.

Think about this ..

Revelation 6:4(a) And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Matthew 24:7(a) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom

Yes there have always been wars, but this red horse has a specific mission .. to taking peace from the earth .. and since the peace is a world peace being taken away (take peace from the earth) then the result of this horses riding has to, by his very mission specs alone,  must lead to global unrest .. for peace is taken from the earth as a consequence of his riding ..

The sword of the 2nd Seal is a machaira:

1. a large knife, used for killing animals and cutting up flesh

2. a small sword, as distinguished from a large sword

-- the same type of weapon being used by ISIS and ISIS-wannabees, to behead and/or butcher innocents. Which actions are leading the whole earth into a Middle-Eastern followed by worldwide war.

3rd Seal: famine caused by an economic crisis, leaving people destitute. On the immediate horizon.

 

Yes. Islam is the new power. They simply await their leader.

 

A great sword is a large two handed sword too .. God is telling us that this sword destroys many, hence the warring amongst nations. 

It says nation against nation & kingdom against kingdom, it doesn't say Islam v's the rest which is what you are basically saying, so we have a BIG problem there.

You mention ISIS .. bad choice .. haven't you read all the information that has been coming out as to WHO created ISIS??

Even European ministers of several nations have hinted at it, retired generals have stated it, war correspondents have alluded to it etc etc etc, independent investigators have confirmed it .. haven't you investigated this yet?

The west controls the world economy, not Islam !!

It is the west who is in the position to bring a cashless society to pass, not Islam.

And it is the elites embedded in the west who are destroying the world economy to bring in their cashless society, not Islam.

It is the west who has raped the world and trampled it, not Islam.

It is the Illuminati conspiring for this one world leader, and who have sway over all the world's economies and are dominated by Ashkanazi / Khazar Jews with their source in BRITISH IMPERIALISM etc .. not Islam.

It is the "Crown" that rules the world and is based in Inner City London .. The "Crown" as in the oligarchs .. the big fish of the Illuminati .. Rothschild's mob ..NOT Islam .. HUGE problem.

Haven't you investigated the illuminati and their plans?

How they laid out their intentions some centuries ago now and how the world seems to be following their plan to a tee !!

Coincidence?

And how they are Satanic of course, and western based, and are striving for global government with a cashless society and a global leader whom they are waiting for Lucifer to send them????

NOT ISLAM.  

The west .. the west .. the west .. NOT Islam.

Islam is in no position to achieve what the "west" has almost COMPLETED .. one world order with one president .. the false prophet himself .. not Islam.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

...The west controls the world economy, not Islam !!

...

Satan controls the world economy, not the west. Satan the Dragon will "give him [the Beast] his power, his throne, and great authority," Rev. 13:2, including authority over the west.

The great illusion of western dominance is about to be crushed, as the 6th (spirit-) king of Rev. 19:10, Romanism -- the "one [that] is", is about to go the way of the previous five spirit-kings/empires. [Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece]. And then the way will open for "the other who has not yet come. And when he comes he must continue a short time."

Habakkuk 2:7 “Will not all these take up a proverb against him,
And a taunting riddle against him, and say,
‘Woe to him who increases
What is not his—how long?
And to him who loads himself with many pledges’?

8 Will not your creditors rise up suddenly?
Will they not awaken who oppress you?
And you will become their booty.

9 Because you have plundered many nations,
All the remnant of the people shall plunder you...

Now, just whom do you think this is talking about, hmmm??