When Christ returns for the Body of Christ.

[Marilyn C]

I agree Sister, however this is not the New Jerusalem thread, that is over in the prophecy section. Retro, if you wish to answer, could you do it there please.

Marilyn.

[MorningGlory]

Go for it, Marilyn.  The derailers get lost sometimes. 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn C. 

I agree Sister, however this is not the New Jerusalem thread, that is over in the prophecy section. Retro, if you wish to answer, could you do it there please.

Marilyn.

Sorry for derailing your thread. That wasn’t my intention; I was trying to CONTRIBUTE to your thread where I could. As per your wish, I will answer in the New Jerusalem thread in Prophecy.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Retro,

Thanks fine bro, I was in there too thinking it was about the NJ.

Marilyn.

[n2thelight]

 

We know that when Jesus was on earth He taught His disciples many truths & told them to teach others. `”Go therefore & make disciples of all nations, baptizing them…teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you…` (Matt. 28: 19 & 20)

 

Then when He ascended to the Father He revealed more of His plans & purposes to the Apostle Paul, who then gave his disciples `the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27) The early disciples thus knew all of God`s plans & purposes not only for Israel & the other nations but also for this new group they were learning about – the Body of Christ.

 

`Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God.` (1 Cor. 10: 32)

 

Paul taught them the whole counsel of God but warned that when he was gone false teachers would arise & come to try to deceive them.

 

`For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.` (Acts. 20: 27)

 

`Take heed….for I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.` (Acts 20: 29 – 31)

 

Looking back throughout history we can see the main errors that came against the believers

 

- not holding fast to the Head,

• letting leaders lord it over them,

• division of laity & priests,

• baptism of children,

• connecting church & State,

• indulgences,

   

  Then we see that there is a reviving of the truths of Christ as the Holy Spirit brings revelation & guides not only individuals but the whole Body of Christ into all truth.

   

  `When He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth..` (John 16: 13)

   

  The main truths we can see that have been restored over the centuries are –

   

• Salvation through Christ`s sacrifice.

• Living a holy life.

• Baptism in water for adults as a profession of faith.

• Infilling of the Holy Spirit & His giftings.

• The ministry gifts of the ascended Christ. (Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher, Prophet, Apostle)

   

  These we have seen recognized in the second part of the last century. Along with the true there also has come the false, and each believer needs to be very discerning.

   

  Then there is the last truth to be revealed, clarified by the Holy Spirit across the Body of Christ. This concerns the eternal purposes of God for the Body of Christ, for Israel & for the nations. At the present time we are in the `tossed to & fro` time where we are all working through this eschatological topic. Much discussion, debate & challenging of preconceived ideas is going on. However when the `dust settles` as it were & the `muddy waters,` have cleared then the Body of Christ will come through and -

   

  `we all come to the unity of faith & the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: that we should no longer be children, tossed to & fro & carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive, but, speaking the truth in love may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head – Christ – from whom the whole Body, joined & knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, cause the growth of the Body for the edifying of itself in love.` (Eph. 4: 13 – 16)  

   

  The Eternal Purposes are concerned with WHY God has planned each group & their eternal inheritance. Too often we get our heads butting over the details when if we started to look at why God has planned His purposes, then we would not only understand them better but have a greater appreciation of our Lord & Saviour, our Heavenly Father & the Holy Spirit.

   

  I hope we can have a good discussion on the unity of faith & what the Holy Spirit has revealed over the years, remembering that many have died for the truths they stood for. And we have these truths today so that individually & corporately as a Body, we may grow up into Him, our Head.

   

  Marilyn.

   

   

   

WHEN Christ returns. (Worthy).docx

Hello Marilyn

Why do you and so many seperate Israel from the Church,when Israel has always been the Church?

 

This false dichotomy of Israel versus the church gives rise to all kinds of strange and divers end-times schemes. These people (dispensationalists) say that the church will live in heaven with Christ and that Israel will rule on the earth in fulfillment of the promises made to Abraham. Notice here that they even keep Israel and the church separate in the world to come. But do the scriptures keep Israel and the church separate? No. A thousand times, no. The scriptures say that Christ came to make Jew and Gentile ONE body. Let us go to the witness stand--

Witness #1: Ephesians 2:11-22, Jews and Gentiles are One in Christ

 

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, WHO HATH MADE BOTH ONE, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;[there is no separation]

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain ONE new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in ONE body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we BOTH have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are NO MORE STRANGERS AND FOREIGNERS, BUT FELLOWCITIZENS with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; [as a Gentile believer even the prophets are mine through the blood of Jesus--Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, all of them!]

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. [All believers, Jew or Gentile, are ONE building.]

Witness #2: Ephesians 3:3, 5-6, We are the Same Body

 

3 ...by revelation he made known unto me the mystery...

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be FELLOWHEIRS, and of THE SAME BODY, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Witness #3: Romans 4:9-17, We have the SAME Father--Abraham

 

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of ALL them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. [Abraham is not just the father of the Jewish people. He is my father too. We are only ONE family in father Abraham.]

Israel is the Root of the New Testament Church

The scriptures clearly teach that the church did not start on the day of Pentecost. It already existed. In Abraham, God called out a people and a church for his name. Israel is the root of the New Testament Church. The mystery hidden from the foundation of the world was that the Gentile should be graffed into that root. The Gentiles are not a separate tree.

Those Jews who abide in unbelief are broken off from their own tree through their unbelief. There is not special provision for them in the "tribulation period" (incidentally, the Bible does not teach that Christians will escape the great tribulation. It teaches the opposite and says for us to pray that our flight not be in the winter or on the sabbath day). All they have to do is believe in Jesus Christ and they will be immediately graffed back into their own tree. In speaking of Israel, Paul says this is Romans 11--

 

THE "RAPTURE"

 

Dispensationalist-type people believe that there will be a "pre-tribulation rapture"--

they believe that before the beast (1) takes over (2) makes war on the saints, and (3) requires his mark on each person's body, that all Christians will be "raptured" (rapture is not a Bible word).

The Bible does not teach a pre-tribulation rapture. It teaches tribulation. Because these people believe that they will not partake in tribulation, they are not spiritually or physically preparing themselves, or their children, for what is to come--yea, already IS. They cannot see what is happening before their very eyes. They are so strengthened in deception that they cannot see nor hear. Not only are they deceived, they condemn any one who does not believe in a pretribulation rapture.

The book of Romans teaches that God has not forgotten nor cast away Israel--his people which he foreknew--but they have to be saved by the blood of Jesus like anyone else and they have to obey the scriptures like anyone else. We are now one family--the Israel of God.

The Bible teaches that there is a dichotomy between the Jew's religion and the church of God--the Jew's religion is a false religion, NOT the counterpart of the gospel. Paul was a Jewish man, in the Jewish religion. He left the Jews' religion and came into the church of God--

Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past

in the Jews' religion

, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Us sinners of the Gentiles, leave the ways of the heathen Gentiles and come into the church of God.

1 Corinthians 12:2 Ye know that

ye WERE Gentiles

, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

First Corinthians 10:32 shows the three groups:

Give none offence, neither to the

Jews

, nor to the

Gentiles

, nor to

the church of God

:

The LORD our God is one LORD. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

http://biblicalscholarship.net/israelvs.htm

 

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi n2thelight,

Thank you for your thoughts. Now can you tell me please who are these -

1. The nations that walk in the light of the New Jerusalem. (Rev. 21: 24)

2. Those in the New Jerusalem. (Rev. 22: 3)

3. The overcomers that sit with Christ on His throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

 

Marilyn.

 

[Montana Marv]

n2thelight

Much of what you are peddling is total heresy.

The Church began at Pentecost.  Fact  Acts 1:8 - But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and to the ends of the earth.  Cp 2:1-2 - When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.  Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind come from heaven and filled the whole house whee they were sitting. v4 - All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Full of the Holy Spirit is what distinguishes the Church from Israel or any other group.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Marilyn C]

 

n2thelight

Much of what you are peddling is total heresy.

The Church began at Pentecost.  Fact  Acts 1:8 - But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and to the ends of the earth.  Cp 2:1-2 - When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.  Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind come from heaven and filled the whole house whee they were sitting. v4 - All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Full of the Holy Spirit is what distinguishes the Church from Israel or any other group.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Amen Montana Marv.

[n2thelight]

Hi n2thelight,

Thank you for your thoughts. Now can you tell me please who are these -

1. The nations that walk in the light of the New Jerusalem. (Rev. 21: 24)

2. Those in the New Jerusalem. (Rev. 22: 3)

3. The overcomers that sit with Christ on His throne. (Rev. 3: 21)

 

Marilyn.

 

Your welcome Marilyn

 

1.Answrer is in the verse

2.Same

3.Same

Not understanding your questions,please clarify

My question to you...Do you know who Israel is?Also who or what was the Church in the wilderness?

Acts 7:37 "This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, `A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; Him shall ye hear.' "

Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the Angel Which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our father: who received the lively oracles to give unto us."

Where does Moses and the rest of the Old Test prophets fit in,are they of the Church or Israel?

[n2thelight]

n2thelight

Much of what you are peddling is total heresy.

The Church began at Pentecost.  Fact  Acts 1:8 - But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and to the ends of the earth.  Cp 2:1-2 - When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place.  Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind come from heaven and filled the whole house whee they were sitting. v4 - All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Full of the Holy Spirit is what distinguishes the Church from Israel or any other group.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Acts 1:8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

Full of the Holy Spirit,Okayyyyyy......Sooooo what Spirit did the Old Testament people have?

The Holy Spirit has always been active,since Genesis in fact

The Spirit is seen from the beginning as present at creation in Genesis 1.2, “the Spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters”, like a bird watching over its nest, and then God speaks and the process continues. The Psalmist conjoins these ideas of spirit and word when he describes the creation in these terms -

In Numbers 11.25-26 the helpers appointed by Moses to assist him in his work are to receive the same ‘spirit’ as he enjoys - ‘the Lord took some of the spirit that was upon him, and put it upon the seventy elders, and when the spirit rested upon them they prophesied’. The activity of the Spirit is revealed in prophesying, but in this case as a sign of permanent enduement with the Spirit of wisdom..

The Holy Spirit has always been active....

 

Not hearsy....Scripture

 

Edited October 28, 2015 by n2thelight