When Christ returns for the Body of Christ.

[Marilyn C]

 

We know that when Jesus was on earth He taught His disciples many truths & told them to teach others. `”Go therefore & make disciples of all nations, baptizing them…teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you…` (Matt. 28: 19 & 20)

 

Then when He ascended to the Father He revealed more of His plans & purposes to the Apostle Paul, who then gave his disciples `the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27) The early disciples thus knew all of God`s plans & purposes not only for Israel & the other nations but also for this new group they were learning about – the Body of Christ.

 

`Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God.` (1 Cor. 10: 32)

 

Paul taught them the whole counsel of God but warned that when he was gone false teachers would arise & come to try to deceive them.

 

`For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.` (Acts. 20: 27)

 

`Take heed….for I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.` (Acts 20: 29 – 31)

 

Looking back throughout history we can see the main errors that came against the believers

 

- not holding fast to the Head,

• letting leaders lord it over them,

• division of laity & priests,

• baptism of children,

• connecting church & State,

• indulgences,

   

  Then we see that there is a reviving of the truths of Christ as the Holy Spirit brings revelation & guides not only individuals but the whole Body of Christ into all truth.

   

  `When He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth..` (John 16: 13)

   

  The main truths we can see that have been restored over the centuries are –

   

• Salvation through Christ`s sacrifice.

• Living a holy life.

• Baptism in water for adults as a profession of faith.

• Infilling of the Holy Spirit & His giftings.

• The ministry gifts of the ascended Christ. (Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher, Prophet, Apostle)

   

  These we have seen recognized in the second part of the last century. Along with the true there also has come the false, and each believer needs to be very discerning.

   

  Then there is the last truth to be revealed, clarified by the Holy Spirit across the Body of Christ. This concerns the eternal purposes of God for the Body of Christ, for Israel & for the nations. At the present time we are in the `tossed to & fro` time where we are all working through this eschatological topic. Much discussion, debate & challenging of preconceived ideas is going on. However when the `dust settles` as it were & the `muddy waters,` have cleared then the Body of Christ will come through and -

   

  `we all come to the unity of faith & the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: that we should no longer be children, tossed to & fro & carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive, but, speaking the truth in love may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head – Christ – from whom the whole Body, joined & knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, cause the growth of the Body for the edifying of itself in love.` (Eph. 4: 13 – 16)  

   

  The Eternal Purposes are concerned with WHY God has planned each group & their eternal inheritance. Too often we get our heads butting over the details when if we started to look at why God has planned His purposes, then we would not only understand them better but have a greater appreciation of our Lord & Saviour, our Heavenly Father & the Holy Spirit.

   

  I hope we can have a good discussion on the unity of faith & what the Holy Spirit has revealed over the years, remembering that many have died for the truths they stood for. And we have these truths today so that individually & corporately as a Body, we may grow up into Him, our Head.

   

  Marilyn.

   

   

   

WHEN Christ returns. (Worthy).docx

Edited September 22, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Last Daze]

 

We know that when Jesus was on earth He taught His disciples many truths & told them to teach others. `”Go therefore & make disciples of all nations, baptizing them…teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you…` (Matt. 28: 19 & 20)

 

Then when He ascended to the Father He revealed more of His plans & purposes to the Apostle Paul, who then gave his disciples `the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27) The early disciples thus knew all of God`s plans & purposes not only for Israel & the other nations but also for this new group they were learning about – the Body of Christ.

 

`Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God.` (1 Cor. 10: 32)

 

Paul taught them the whole counsel of God but warned that when he was gone false teachers would arise & come to try to deceive them.

 

`For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.` (Acts. 20: 27)

 

`Take heed….for I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.` (Acts 20: 29 – 31)

 

Looking back throughout history we can see the main errors that came against the believers

 

- not holding fast to the Head,

• letting leaders lord it over them,

• division of laity & priests,

• baptism of children,

• connecting church & State,

• indulgences,

   

  Then we see that there is a reviving of the truths of Christ as the Holy Spirit brings revelation & guides not only individuals but the whole Body of Christ into all truth.

   

  `When He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth..` (John 16: 13)

   

  The main truths we can see that have been restored over the centuries are –

   

• Salvation through Christ`s sacrifice.

• Living a holy life.

• Baptism in water for adults as a profession of faith.

• Infilling of the Holy Spirit & His giftings.

• The ministry gifts of the ascended Christ. (Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher, Prophet, Apostle)

   

  These we have seen recognized in the second part of the last century. Along with the true there also has come the false, and each believer needs to be very discerning.

   

  Then there is the last truth to be revealed, clarified by the Holy Spirit across the Body of Christ. This concerns the eternal purposes of God for the Body of Christ, for Israel & for the nations. At the present time we are in the `tossed to & fro` time where we are all working through this eschatological topic. Much discussion, debate & challenging of preconceived ideas is going on. However when the `dust settles` as it were & the `muddy waters,` have cleared then the Body of Christ will come through and -

   

  `we all come to the unity of faith & the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: that we should no longer be children, tossed to & fro & carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive, but, speaking the truth in love may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head – Christ – from whom the whole Body, joined & knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, cause the growth of the Body for the edifying of itself in love.` (Eph. 4: 13 – 16)  

   

  The Eternal Purposes are concerned with WHY God has planned each group & their eternal inheritance. Too often we get our heads butting over the details when if we started to look at why God has planned His purposes, then we would not only understand them better but have a greater appreciation of our Lord & Saviour, our Heavenly Father & the Holy Spirit.

   

  I hope we can have a good discussion on the unity of faith & what the Holy Spirit has revealed over the years, remembering that many have died for the truths they stood for. And we have these truths today so that individually & corporately as a Body, we may grow up into Him, our Head.

   

  Marilyn.

   

   

   

WHEN Christ returns. (Worthy).docx

Hi Marilyn,

I agree that purposes are important.  I also think that details are important because they will often be used to arrive at purposes.

Unless a purpose is explicitly stated...along the lines of "For this purpose....." then purposes are arrived at by looking at details and characteristics.  Is that not a fair statement?  Because things tend to be subject to interpretation I think it's important to have some order of precedence; a way of assigning "weight" to a premise or something assumed to be true.

My approach is to give a higher precedence to things that are plainly stated whether they are purposes, or details, then inferences, deductions, etc down to, say, traditions.  They all must harmonize and that's my preference....for what its worth.  I know it's not that simplistic but I just can't override something clearly stated with something ambiguous, not if I'm going to look at things objectively.

We all have knowledge.  Knowledge puffs up.  The key to a reasoned discussion (in my opinion) is to become detached emotionally from our intellectual eschatological empires so we don't get our feelings hurt so we can make adjustments as the Spirit leads.

That's how I go about interpreting prophecy anyway.

[Ezra]

I hope we can have a good discussion on the unity of faith & what the Holy Spirit has revealed over the years, remembering that many have died for the truths they stood for.

Marilyn,

The unity of the faith requires that the Church be seen (as revealed in Scripture) as not only THE BODY OF CHRIST, BUT ALSO THE BUILDING OR TEMPLE OF CHRIST, AS WELL AS THE BRIDE OF CHRIST (which will eventually be the Wife of the Lamb).  So if you fail to bring all of this truth together, you do not maintain the unity of the faith. These are all METAPHORS  as well as SPIRITUAL REALITIES applicable to the saints.

You have said in the past "How can the Body also be the Bride?" So then someone else will come along and say "How can the Bride also be the Building?" as though that were impossible. It is the same as asking "How can a sinner be a saint in God's eyes?" And Scripture responds thus: "With God ALL THINGS are possible".

[missmuffet]

You are talking about the rapture?

[Marilyn C]

Hi bopeep1909,

Yes, I believe that God`s word is telling us that when the Holy Spirit has brought the corporate Body to maturity, with all the truth of Christ & His purposes, & we have stood for these against much opposition, then the Body is ready to go to its eternal setting in the third heaven on Christ`s own throne.

`To Him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on My throne..` (Rev. 3: 21)

So that to me is the `catching up` of the Body of Christ when all of the believers from down through the ages also get their glorified bodies & we meet, accompany the Lord to His own throne, to rule & reign with Him. There, we will have the rewards at the `Bema seat,` & see the investiture of Jesus with executive power & authority by the Father to execute the judgments upon the rebellious of the world & we, the Body of Christ will take part in that judgment of the world system. 

Blessings, Marilyn.  

PS. As God`s word tells us in Hebrews  that we shall see this day of Christ - our gathering unto Him, drawing near, then this tells me we will not be taken unawares, for we are people of light & not darkness. Thus as we see more understanding of God`s purposes come to light across the Body then the time draws nigh.

`...exhorting one another, & so much more as you see the Day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

`..being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the Day of Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 6 - 10)

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Ezra,

You would have to explain to me why the Body of Christ, promised an inheritance in the third heaven with Christ on His very own throne - authority & power, is then in their glorified bodies brought down to the earth to rule & reign from there?

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

Hi Last Daze,

 

Good thoughts there, bro. I like that bit about giving `higher precedence to things that are plainly stated..`  And yes, our emotions all have to bow to what God says & not get caught up defending `eschatological empires.`  Also it`s a `fair statement` to look at `the details & characteristics,` as you said, & important to have `some order of precedence; a way of aligning `weight` to a premise or something assumed to be true.`

 

Thus it is so wonderful , as we all know, that God has revealed His counsel, His will, His purpose to us, plainly stated –

 

`(God)…having made known to us, (the Body of Christ) the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ Jesus, both which are in heaven & which are on earth – in Him, in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will.` (Eph. 1: 9 – 11)

 

There is the whole overview of God`s will which He purposed – to gather all things in harmony under Christ. Every rulership in every realm, will come under the authority & power of the Lord Jesus Christ, who is `far above all…rulers in this age & in the one to come.` (Eph 1: 21)

 

We know that every realm & position of authority was made by Christ & made for Him. Thus what we are reading of in God`s word are the details of who is being brought to account & who will reign in which realm.

 

`For by Him all things were created that are in heaven & that are on earth, visible & invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him & for Him.` (Col. 1: 16)

 

Once that frame work is in place then it is just a matter of the details of which group – Body of Christ, or Israel or the nations – goes where & in what timing.

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

 

 

[Littlelambseativy]

God the Father is waiting for the "Full Number" to come into the acceptance of Jesus as Lord. It has nothing to do with what the Bride does otherwise it becomes works and negates the work of the Holy Spirit in sealing the Christians.

[Last Daze]

Yes, I believe that God`s word is telling us that when the Holy Spirit has brought the corporate Body to maturity, with all the truth of Christ & His purposes, & we have stood for these against much opposition, then the Body is ready to go to its eternal setting in the third heaven on Christ`s own throne.

`To Him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on My throne..` (Rev. 3: 21)

Do you see it as the unity of the faith per Ephesians 4?

Until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.  Ephesians 4:13

[Ezra]

Hi Ezra,

You would have to explain to me why the Body of Christ, promised an inheritance in the third heaven with Christ on His very own throne - authority & power, is then in their glorified bodies brought down to the earth to rule & reign from there?

Marilyn.

Who said anything about the Body of Christ being "brought down to earth"?  That is a false conclusion that many accept simply because the saints will live and reign with Christ.  We are simply not told in any detail as to how the saints in their glorified bodies will share in the reign of Christ, but nonetheless, that is irrelevant to the fact that the Body is also the Bride and is also the Building. And yes, the eternal home and the eternal inheritance of the Church is indeed in the New Jerusalem, NOT ON EARTH. The earth will be peopled and redeemed and restored Israel will certainly be on earth. But the earth is not the home of those who have mansions in Heaven (or to be precise in the New Jerusalem).