The drunkards of Ephraim

[Ezra]

I am giving you a helping hand, a guide.

I am sorry, but to be blunt, your are simply propagating false doctrine, and for those who may be unfamiliar with many Scriptures, you are leading them astray.

There are no tribes today.

That is a misleading statement, since we are to consider Bible prophecy, not just current affairs, when we discuss Israel. From God's perspective, the twelve tribes of Israel are already seen as settled in the Promised Land after the Second Coming of Christ.  So to claim "there are no tribes today" leads to simply making a mishmash of Scripture, and it does not bode well.  We had a thread specifically on the twelve tribes AS GOD SEES THEM and you went off on all kinds of tangents.

God does use symbolism and Ephraim is a mixed people.  It stands for the Christian world of today.

There is exegesis, and then there is application.  One can apply many Scriptures to the Christian world, but we cannot go around saying "Ephraim is the Christian world", and that is what you are trying to do.  Many characteristics of Ephraim in bygone days could be applied, but as far as God is concerned, Ephraim WILL REMAIN JOSEPH (Ezek 48:32; Rev 7:8).

What I would like to point out is that your flights of fancy do not help Christians in the least.  There are some fundamental principles of Bible interpretation which all Bible-believing Christians adhere to, and evidently you do not feel constrained by them.

[Sister]

I fail to understand the purpose of the op. 

Do you remember when John in Revelations was told by the angel to eat the little book?  Well that book was sweet to taste, but once it went down, it made his belly bitter.  God doesn't only show us the "nice things" but horrible things that are to come also.  The truth gives us the good and the bad. 

Now this section that I am writing in called "Eschatology" concerns end time prophesies.  Prophesies are for those who are weaned off the milk.  Prophesies are hard to understand because they are spoken in a certain way.  So this section is for the mature Christian and not for babes.

Now there is a Christian world out there, with MANY denominations.  All believe in God, all believe in Christ, but their teachings differ.  Nevertheless, all claim to be Christian whether Catholic, protestant, JW, ....even Mormons call themselves Christians.  So there is a big Christian world out there, and each denomination has their leaders, their structuring system for teaching "theology" their congregations etc.  This is what I call a mish-mash and the world is looking at us all thinking how confusing - which church do I go to, who do I believe?

Well God sees all this, all those who claim to belong to his "kingdom" and he knows that his "kingdom" here on earth has got many (with power mind you) who shouldn't be representing him.  We all have the same Word of God at our disposal, yet this has also been tampered with and we have so many divisions in this kingdom. 

Christ set the record straight which is his true church, and he made it clear that his temple in not made out of bricks and mortar, but that his temple is inside us. His temple involves the heart where the real sacrifices are made.  Many of us have not offered God true sacrifices of the heart.  In order for him to come and abide in us we have to clean out our temples.  This means repentance.  This is the very first step.....but yet in these prophesies I have shown you, it clearly states that many do not know where they have gone wrong?  They don't see their sin, it's like invisible to them....but not to God.

So to get it right, we must eat the flesh of Christ, not his actual flesh, but his teachings.  He teaches us all things, and if we obey his teachings, he will come and abide in us and give us the holy spirit (the spirit of truth), and the holy spirit will be our teacher.

So "Ephraim" in these scriptures prior, is speaking of the mixed people (gentiles) who became Christians, yet have not cleaned out their temple.  Sometimes we think we know it all and feel so secure in our cosy nests, that we become complacent to what is really going on.  So lets just look at it from God's eyes, what he is showing us. 

That is the purpose of this thread.

 

 

 

 

[Qnts2]

I fail to understand the purpose of the op. 

Do you remember when John in Revelations was told by the angel to eat the little book?  Well that book was sweet to taste, but once it went down, it made his belly bitter.  God doesn't only show us the "nice things" but horrible things that are to come also.  The truth gives us the good and the bad. 

Now this section that I am writing in called "Eschatology" concerns end time prophesies.  Prophesies are for those who are weaned off the milk.  Prophesies are hard to understand because they are spoken in a certain way.  So this section is for the mature Christian and not for babes.

Now there is a Christian world out there, with MANY denominations.  All believe in God, all believe in Christ, but their teachings differ.  Nevertheless, all claim to be Christian whether Catholic, protestant, JW, ....even Mormons call themselves Christians.  So there is a big Christian world out there, and each denomination has their leaders, their structuring system for teaching "theology" their congregations etc.  This is what I call a mish-mash and the world is looking at us all thinking how confusing - which church do I go to, who do I believe?

Well God sees all this, all those who claim to belong to his "kingdom" and he knows that his "kingdom" here on earth has got many (with power mind you) who shouldn't be representing him.  We all have the same Word of God at our disposal, yet this has also been tampered with and we have so many divisions in this kingdom. 

Christ set the record straight which is his true church, and he made it clear that his temple in not made out of bricks and mortar, but that his temple is inside us. His temple involves the heart where the real sacrifices are made.  Many of us have not offered God true sacrifices of the heart.  In order for him to come and abide in us we have to clean out our temples.  This means repentance.  This is the very first step.....but yet in these prophesies I have shown you, it clearly states that many do not know where they have gone wrong?  They don't see their sin, it's like invisible to them....but not to God.

So to get it right, we must eat the flesh of Christ, not his actual flesh, but his teachings.  He teaches us all things, and if we obey his teachings, he will come and abide in us and give us the holy spirit (the spirit of truth), and the holy spirit will be our teacher.

So "Ephraim" in these scriptures prior, is speaking of the mixed people (gentiles) who became Christians, yet have not cleaned out their temple.  Sometimes we think we know it all and feel so secure in our cosy nests, that we become complacent to what is really going on.  So lets just look at it from God's eyes, what he is showing us. 

That is the purpose of this thread.

 

 

 

 

Ephraim is a son of Joseph. Ephraim refers to the descendents of Ephraim who are 'Jewish'. Ephraim as the largest tribe of the Northern Kingdom, during the divided kingdom, refers to all tribes who once lived in the Northern Kingdom. The Kingdoms are no longer divided, and the children of Israel are still in a scattered state.

You are using garbage personel symbolism which does not exist in scripture. No where in scripture is the church called Ephraim. To be a child of Ephraim means the child is Jewish by linage. A drop of Jewish blood does not make a Gentile into a Jew. A person is either 100% Jewish or not Jewish at all. So, to say that you are gentile means you are not a child of Ephraim. Your faulty interpretation of scripture is not valid, and is potentially dangerous.

 In the NT, the Holy Spirit is given as a teacher, but it also says that some believers have received the gift to teach. Since God gave us human teachers, that means we can and should learn from human teachers. If that were not true, God would not have given some to be teachers. These teachers are a part of the function to keep believers from running to and fro with every wind of doctrine. I have known Christians who think that all they need is the Holy Spirit to learn and ignore God's given teachers. They run wild with all kinds of supposedly spiritual teaching which they claim are revelation, becoming themselves unteachable as they believe they have hidden truth which no one else understands. They become very unscriptural. They heed no warnings thinking they have a hidden higher truth which most other Christians are too immature or deceived to accept from them.   

[Sister]

Qnts2

 

Jeremiah 31:9   They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Please explain?

[Qnts2]

Qnts2

 

Jeremiah 31:9   They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Please explain?

In context:

Jeremiah 31:⁷ For thus saith the Lord; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O Lord, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.

⁸ Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.

⁹ They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

¹⁰ Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

This is a prophesy to the children of Israel. Both, the northern Kingdom, called Ephraim because it is the largest tribe, and the Southern Kingdom, called Judea because Judah is the largest tribe, have been scattered from the land of Israel, and taken captive. God is saying, that the children of Israel who were scattered, will be regathered. That is it. Firstborn is speaking of pre-eminence in this case. Ephraim is the largest tribe. 

Gentiles were not scattered from the land of Israel by God, so could not be re-gathered. It is not talking about Gentiles.

G

[WilliamL]

Isaiah 17

1 The burden against Damascus. "Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city, And it will be a ruinous heap.
-- never happened yet, but is happening right now: this is a prophecy for our time.

2 The cities of Aroer are forsaken; They will be for flocks Which lie down, and no one will make them afraid.

3 The fortress/stronghold also will cease from Ephraim,

-- so there is a place wherein Ephraim dwells at this time.

The kingdom from Damascus, And the remnant of Syria; They will be as the glory of the children of Israel," Says the Lord of hosts.

4 "In that day it shall come to pass That the glory of Jacob will wane, And the fatness of his flesh grow lean.
-- lots of fat people inhabit the lands of Ephraim at this time, when Ephraim will fall from its glory, just as spoken of in Is. 28 above.

5 It shall be as when the harvester gathers the grain, And reaps the heads with his arm; It shall be as he who gathers heads of grain In the Valley of Rephaim.

6 Yet gleaning grapes will be left in it, Like the shaking of an olive tree, Two or three olives at the top of the uppermost bough, Four or five in its most fruitful branches," Says the Lord God of Israel.

7 In that day a man will look to his Maker, And his eyes will have respect for the Holy One of Israel.

8 He will not look to the altars, The work of his hands; He will not respect what his fingers have made, Nor the wooden images nor the incense altars.

9 In that day his strong cities will be as a forsaken bough And an uppermost branch, Which they left because of the children of Israel; And there will be desolation.

10 Because you have forgotten the God of your salvation,

-- there is a land where strong cities are prophesied to be both forsaken (like when the banks fail, and govt. checks stop coming, and the grid collapses) and then destroyed, a place that has forgotten\ God,

And have not been mindful of the Rock of your stronghold, Therefore you will plant pleasant plants And set out foreign seedlings;

11 In the day you will make your plant to grow, And in the morning you will make your seed to flourish; But the harvest will be a heap of ruins In the day of grief and desperate sorrow.

12 Woe to the multitude of many people Who make a noise like the roar of the seas, And to the rushing of nations That make a rushing like the rushing of mighty waters!

13 The nations will rush like the rushing of many waters;

-- Is. 28:2 Behold, the Lord has a mighty and strong one, Like a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, Like a flood of mighty waters overflowing, Who will bring them [Ephraim] down to the earth with His hand.

-- Rev. 12:5 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.

But God will rebuke them and they will flee far away, And be chased like the chaff of the mountains before the wind, Like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

14 Then behold, at eventide, trouble! And before the morning, he is no more. This is the portion of those who plunder us, And the lot of those who rob us.
-- Rev. 12:16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

Deut 49:24 But his [Joseph's] bow shall remain/abide in strength, and the arms of his hands shall be refined (as gold)/made strong by the hands of the MIghty One of Jacob; (from thence will be shepherding the Stone of Israel); 25 From the God of thy father who shall help thee...

 

I don't agree with everything you've written above, Sister, but you are on the right track.

 

[Sister]

Qnts2

This is a prophecy for those with understanding.  Israel would not have understood this.

 

⁸ Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither.

^{The remnants will be gathered from all over the world where they have been scattered.  The North country is North of Israel.  Not in Israel.  The Northern hemisphere of the world.}

⁹ They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

 

This is a prophesy to the children of Israel. Both, the northern Kingdom, called Ephraim because it is the largest tribe, and the Southern Kingdom, called Judea because Judah is the largest tribe, have been scattered from the land of Israel, and taken captive. God is saying, that the children of Israel who were scattered, will be regathered. That is it. Firstborn is speaking of pre-eminence in this case. Ephraim is the largest tribe. 

Gentiles were not scattered from the land of Israel by God, so could not be re-gathered. It is not talking about Gentiles.

Qnts2

It says Ephraim is my "firstborn".  Firstborn means born FIRST.  Firstborn does not mean largest tribe, and the tribe of Ephraim in the past is not preferred before Judah, it was the other way around, so you have got it all confused, but that's ok, because I am going to show you, and if you are not too proud, you will see also.  This is for the love of the truth.

 

 Genesis 48:14   And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

YOU FORGOT TO LOOK HERE TO GET YOUR ANSWER.

^{Israel (Jacob) was tricked into blessing the younger son (Ephraim) over the older one (Mannasseh).  This is all God's doing.  This would be a sign for the future ...to us who can understand what God has purposed.}

^{Mannasseh, the older son represents ISRAEL who were called first by God, yet the younger son EPHRAIM received the blessing.}

Genesis 48:5   And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine.

  Genesis 48:6   And thy issue, which thou begettest after them, shall be thine, and shall be called after the name of their brethren in their inheritance.

Genesis 48:17   And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

  Genesis 48:18   And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

  Genesis 48:19   And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

There you have it.  Ephraim's seed shall become a multitude of nations.  The gentiles. 

Ephraim has multiplied and multiplied throughout the earth and has become the gentiles. Not Israel anymore as you said, but his were roots of Israel a long long long long time ago.

  Genesis 48:20   And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
 

Now according to the Word of the Lord, when Christ came and was rejected and crucified by Israel,  their inheritance was taken from them and promised to the gentiles who would believe instead. 

Romans 10:19   But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Matthew 21:43   Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

Therefore Ephraim the youngest son of God, (believing Gentiles) will be in the FIRST RESURRECTION over his older brother MANASSEH (Israel) who by rights should of inherited the Kingdom of God first.  In the end, both son's will be as one, when God heals Israel during the Millennium. Both will serve the Lord in one spirit. 

And this is what FIRSTBORN MEANS.  In the Resurrection. 

 

 

[MorningGlory]

 

There you have it.  Ephraim's seed shall become a multitude of nations.  The gentiles. 

Ephraim has multiplied and multiplied throughout the earth and has become the gentiles. Not Israel anymore as you said, but his were roots of Israel a long long long long time ago.

  Genesis 48:20   And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
 

Now according to the Word of the Lord, when Christ came and was rejected and crucified by Israel,  their inheritance was taken from them and promised to the gentiles who would believe instead. 

Romans 10:19   But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Matthew 21:43   Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

 

Therefore Ephraim the youngest son of God, (believing Gentiles) will be in the FIRST RESURRECTION over his older brother MANASSEH (Israel) who by rights should of inherited the Kingdom of God first.  In the end, both son's will be as one, when God heals Israel during the Millennium. Both will serve the Lord in one spirit. 

And this is what FIRSTBORN MEANS.  In the Resurrection. 

 

 

Replacement theology wrapped in a thousand words.  Totally unscriptural.  When are you going to stop trying to teach?  You are not qualified to do so judging by the last post.

[Hippie333]

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