Hell Needs Clarification

[thereselittleflower]

An interesting note I have found about hell is that you can be there while your still alive.  Hell is the place of eternal torment just as Christ is the place of eternal life.  We can put on hell and walk in hell just as we can put on Christ and walk in him.  That which you choose to do will help you understand your destination.

I never thought of it in those terms before.

Very interesting thought.

[Openly Curious]

I think the question that needs to be asked is why p0m see people and hell in this light rather than assume.

Then why didn't you ask p0m the question yourself???  There are no assumptions.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Openly Curious

[JohnD]

The problem with clearly understanding hell is all the factors are not taken into consideration.

First off, we are triptych beings (body soul spirit). In the eternal lake of fire (the ultimate hell) bodies are destroyed in the flame, souls cease to exist, but spirits remain forever.

 

Bodies are not being destroyed in hell.  We are not disembodied spirits in eternity.  Everyone will be resurrected with eternal bodies, but those bodies are not being destroyed in hell.    Those who are not born again, will suffer in those eternal bodies for all eternity.

 

Matthew 10:28 (AV)

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

JohnD, you might want to look that word "destroy" up in a Greek lexicon:

ἀπόλλυμι apóllymi, ap-ol'-loo-mee; from G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:—destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

 

1. to destroy

   1. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin

   2. render useless

   3. to kill

   4. to declare that one must be put to death

   5. metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell

   6. to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed

2. to destroy

   1. to lose

 

 

The word can be used figuratively.     It is used metaphorically in regards to hell.

This is why I posted the biblical text (Malachi 4:3) about the ashes of the destroyed bodies to show it was a literal statement regarding hell.

[JohnD]

The problem with clearly understanding hell is all the factors are not taken into consideration.

First off, we are triptych beings (body soul spirit). In the eternal lake of fire (the ultimate hell) bodies are destroyed in the flame, souls cease to exist, but spirits remain forever.

 

Bodies are not being destroyed in hell.  We are not disembodied spirits in eternity.  Everyone will be resurrected with eternal bodies, but those bodies are not being destroyed in hell.    Those who are not born again, will suffer in those eternal bodies for all eternity.

 

Matthew 10:28 (AV)

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Notice the difference.  Fear not those who "kill the body."   vs. God who "destroys the body."   "Kill"  and "destroy"  are not synonymous, meaning that "destroy"  does  not mean annihilate.   "Destroy"  does not, in this verse mean, "to cause someone to cease to exist."     This is referring to ongoing, perpetual destruction that will not cause a person to cease to exist.  So the spiritual bodies that they have will be in a state of perpetual destruction for all eternity.  They are going to suffer forever in those bodies.

Do you believe the condemned will be raised with the same spiritual bodies as the saved?

[JohnD]

1 Corinthians 15:35–58 (NASB95)

35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?”

36 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;

37 and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

38 But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.

40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;

43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

47 The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.

49 Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.

Can this be referring to unbelievers in Jesus who will be thrown into the lake of fire?

Power? Glory? Imperishable? Victory?

Question:

Does the Bible indicate anywhere that the resurrection of the condemned will be any different than the raisings from the dead of Lazarus, Tabitha, or any of the rest who had to die again?  

 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

The name of the doctrine of a non-eternal Hell is conditionalism.  I'm not an advocate of conditionalism so don't come down on me for asking for more information.  The view most of us advocate is eternal punishment.

"Examining the Old Testament texts, Pinnock cites Psalm 37 (NIV) and outlines the imagery that may be associated with the annihilation of the wicked "they will soon wither" (verse 2); "will be cut off (verse 9); "the wicked will perish . . . and vanish vanish like smoke" (verse 20); and "all sinners will be destroyed" (verse 38). According to Malachi 4:1, 2, the wicked will be consumed.

"Pinnock then turns to the New Testament and quotes Jesus who speaks of the ability of God to destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28). He also reminds his readers of the words of Jesus in Matthew 13:30, 42, 49, 50, where the wicked are burned up. Turning to Paul's words, "the wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23), Pinnock argues that the language of destruction can be seen throughout the Epistles. He sees 1 Corinthians 3:17, Philippians 3:19, and 2 Thessalonians 1:9 as clearly referring to the total annihilation of the wicked. He also finds convincing support for the concept of annihilation in 2 Peter 3:7; 2:1, 3; Hebrews 10:29; Jude 7; and Revelation 20:14, 15. "  From: Source Material

This is the basic argument from the conditionalism side.  This, to me, waters down the gospel message.

Edited October 14, 2015 by Saved.One.by.Grace

[Guest shiloh357]

The problem with clearly understanding hell is all the factors are not taken into consideration.

First off, we are triptych beings (body soul spirit). In the eternal lake of fire (the ultimate hell) bodies are destroyed in the flame, souls cease to exist, but spirits remain forever.

 

Bodies are not being destroyed in hell.  We are not disembodied spirits in eternity.  Everyone will be resurrected with eternal bodies, but those bodies are not being destroyed in hell.    Those who are not born again, will suffer in those eternal bodies for all eternity.

 

Matthew 10:28 (AV)

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Notice the difference.  Fear not those who "kill the body."   vs. God who "destroys the body."   "Kill"  and "destroy"  are not synonymous, meaning that "destroy"  does  not mean annihilate.   "Destroy"  does not, in this verse mean, "to cause someone to cease to exist."     This is referring to ongoing, perpetual destruction that will not cause a person to cease to exist.  So the spiritual bodies that they have will be in a state of perpetual destruction for all eternity.  They are going to suffer forever in those bodies.

Do you believe the condemned will be raised with the same spiritual bodies as the saved?

Yes.  I believe the Bible teaches that they will.

[missmuffet]

The problem with clearly understanding hell is all the factors are not taken into consideration.

First off, we are triptych beings (body soul spirit). In the eternal lake of fire (the ultimate hell) bodies are destroyed in the flame, souls cease to exist, but spirits remain forever.

 

Bodies are not being destroyed in hell.  We are not disembodied spirits in eternity.  Everyone will be resurrected with eternal bodies, but those bodies are not being destroyed in hell.    Those who are not born again, will suffer in those eternal bodies for all eternity.

 

Matthew 10:28 (AV)

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Notice the difference.  Fear not those who "kill the body."   vs. God who "destroys the body."   "Kill"  and "destroy"  are not synonymous, meaning that "destroy"  does  not mean annihilate.   "Destroy"  does not, in this verse mean, "to cause someone to cease to exist."     This is referring to ongoing, perpetual destruction that will not cause a person to cease to exist.  So the spiritual bodies that they have will be in a state of perpetual destruction for all eternity.  They are going to suffer forever in those bodies.

Do you believe the condemned will be raised with the same spiritual bodies as the saved?

Yes.  I believe the Bible teaches that they will.

Yes,the Bible does teach that.

[JohnD]

Please supply the scriptures.

Thanks.

[Ezra]

Please supply the scriptures.

Thanks.

Although there will be a resurrection of the damned, they will not receive "spiritual" bodies such as those of the saints, which are also glorified bodies.  We are not told what kind of bodies they will be, but they will be "eternal" since the torments of Hell will be eternal.  We need to be careful to limit ourselves to what is revealed in Scripture (Rev 20:12,13). 

On a side note, beware of Clark Pinnock and his liberal theology.  He turned liberal many years ago, and now here is what we are seeing: "There is increasing evidence that many evangelical Christians involving a variety of denominations are moving toward conditionalism."  There is no Scriptural support for this, and all the verses that seemingly talk about annihilation must be view in the light of clear passages which do not, particularly the words of Christ Himself.