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The Last Trumpet

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We know for sure that the resurrection / rapture happens at the last trumpet.  I've been doing some thinking about the last trumpet, trying to determine what trumpet that could be a reference to.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.  1 Corinthians 15:52

But which trumpet is it that is being referenced as the last one?  In Revelation 8 we see seven trumpets given to the seven plague angels.  Is the seventh of those trumpets the last one?  The argument against that is that Paul wouldn't have know about those trumpets when he wrote about "the last trumpet."  Even though all scripture is inspired by God, and certainly God knew of them, I think there is a better reason why it is not the seventh trumpet in Revelation.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.  1 Thessalonians 4:16

We see in this verse that the trumpet which is being sounded at the resurrection / rapture, the last one, is the trumpet of God.  This clarifies things greatly because who else would sound the trumpet of God except God Himself?  So, which trumpet would Paul have been aware of, that he is referencing in the above verses, that could qualify as the trumpet of God and be the last one?

Then the Lord will appear over them, and His arrow will go forth like lightning; and the Lord God will blow the trumpet, and will march in the storm winds of the south.  The Lord of hosts will defend them.  And they will devour and trample on the sling stones; and they will drink and be boisterous as with wine; and they will be filled like a sacrificial basin, drenched like the corners of the altar.  And the Lord their God will save them in that day as the flock of His people; for they are as the stones of a crown, sparkling in His land.  Zechariah 9:14-16

Other verses that reference a trumpet on the day of the Lord are Zephaniah 1:16, Joel 2:1, and Isaiah 27:13.

So, based on this, the last trumpet is the trumpet that the Lord Himself blows as He appears in the clouds (over them) in the same day that He pours out His wrath and saves Israel. Paul certainly would have known of this.

This fits perfectly with the day of the Lord coming in one day at the seventh trumpet after the armies gather at Armageddon:

  • The seventh angel sounds his trumpet.
  • Jesus takes His great power and begins to reign.
  • The archangel shouts.
  • Jesus descends to the clouds and sounds the trumpet of God.
  • Those who are Christ's are made immortal.  This is the resurrection / rapture which is pictured as the reaping of the righteous per Rev 14:14-16
  • The marriage supper takes place.  All who attend are immortal.  Time is irrelevant.
  • The seventh angel pours out his bowl.
  • Christ, and those with Him, descend.
  • God's wrath is poured out on the ungodly.  This is the reaping of the wicked per Rev 14:17-20
  • Jesus returns, Israel is saved, and the 1000 year kingdom of God is established on earth.

Trumpets in the old testament had various purposes including announcing a king, gathering an assembly, and preparing for war.  This last trumpet combines all three of those purposes in one blast.

That's the latest sounding of the trumpet of God that I could find.  So, I'll call it the last trumpet until someone can show me from scripture a later one.

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The "last trumpet" for the saints cannot be the last trumpet for the wicked and the ungodly, therefore the last trumpet connected with the Rapture is completely separate from any of the trumpets connected with the trumpet judgements of the 7th seal. 

Just because the word "trumpet" is common to both does not mean that they are related.  Similarly there is the resurrection of the just which is completely separate from the resurrection of damnation.  Just because "resurrection" is common to both does not make them identical or even related in any way.

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We know for sure that the resurrection / rapture happens at the last trumpet.  I've been doing some thinking about the last trumpet, trying to determine what trumpet that could be a reference to.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.  1 Corinthians 15:52

But which trumpet is it that is being referenced as the last one?  In Revelation 8 we see seven trumpets given to the seven plague angels.  Is the seventh of those trumpets the last one?  The argument against that is that Paul wouldn't have know about those trumpets when he wrote about "the last trumpet."  Even though all scripture is inspired by God, and certainly God knew of them, I think there is a better reason why it is not the seventh trumpet in Revelation.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.  1 Thessalonians 4:16

We see in this verse that the trumpet which is being sounded at the resurrection / rapture, the last one, is the trumpet of God.  This clarifies things greatly because who else would sound the trumpet of God except God Himself?  So, which trumpet would Paul have been aware of, that he is referencing in the above verses, that could qualify as the trumpet of God and be the last one?

Then the Lord will appear over them, and His arrow will go forth like lightning; and the Lord God will blow the trumpet, and will march in the storm winds of the south.  The Lord of hosts will defend them.  And they will devour and trample on the sling stones; and they will drink and be boisterous as with wine; and they will be filled like a sacrificial basin, drenched like the corners of the altar.  And the Lord their God will save them in that day as the flock of His people; for they are as the stones of a crown, sparkling in His land.  Zechariah 9:14-16

Other verses that reference a trumpet on the day of the Lord are Zephaniah 1:16, Joel 2:1, and Isaiah 27:13.

So, based on this, the last trumpet is the trumpet that the Lord Himself blows as He appears in the clouds (over them) in the same day that He pours out His wrath and saves Israel. Paul certainly would have known of this.

This fits perfectly with the day of the Lord coming in one day at the seventh trumpet after the armies gather at Armageddon:

  • The seventh angel sounds his trumpet.
  • Jesus takes His great power and begins to reign.
  • The archangel shouts.
  • Jesus descends to the clouds and sounds the trumpet of God.
  • Those who are Christ's are made immortal.  This is the resurrection / rapture which is pictured as the reaping of the righteous per Rev 14:14-16
  • The marriage supper takes place.  All who attend are immortal.  Time is irrelevant.
  • The seventh angel pours out his bowl.
  • Christ, and those with Him, descend.
  • God's wrath is poured out on the ungodly.  This is the reaping of the wicked per Rev 14:17-20
  • Jesus returns, Israel is saved, and the 1000 year kingdom of God is established on earth.

Trumpets in the old testament had various purposes including announcing a king, gathering an assembly, and preparing for war.  This last trumpet combines all three of those purposes in one blast.

That's the latest sounding of the trumpet of God that I could find.  So, I'll call it the last trumpet until someone can show me from scripture a later one.

You are thinking way too hard on this.I just take God's word in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 then let it go.

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The "last trumpet" for the saints cannot be the last trumpet for the wicked and the ungodly, therefore the last trumpet connected with the Rapture is completely separate from any of the trumpets connected with the trumpet judgements of the 7th seal. 

Precisely.

Following is a truncated explanation of Last Trumpet/Shofar. The full version can be accessed here: http://www.ourchurch.com/member/d/dummies/index.php?p=1_7_The-Last-Shofar

The Latter Horn of Redemption: The Last Shofar

There is an ancient Hebrew prophetic legend about the horns of the ram that Abraham offered to God “for a burnt offering instead of his son” Isaac. Gen. 22:13 ...the prophetic legend about the former ram says that Abraham cut off its two horns, and made trumpet-horns – shofars – from them. ... The legend says that the lesser of these two Redemption-shofars was blown first, when the LORD descended before his gathered people on Mount Sinai, early in the Exodus:

Then it came to pass on the third day…that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet [Hebrew, shofar] exceeding loud…and the whole mount quaked greatly. And the LORD came down upon Mount Sinai… Exodus 19:16, 18, 20

... Now, according to the prophecy, the greater of the two ram’s/Redeemer’s horns will blown last, at the End of the World (Age). It shall announce the Judgment of God, the Kingdom of the Messiah, the Gathering of Israel, the Resurrection of the dead, and the Redemption of Earth from sin and evil. Perkei Rabbi Eliezer 31; Rosh Hashanah 11b Therefore, it is the Latter, or Last, Shofar.

Paul’s Prophecy about the Last Trumpet/Shofar

The Apostle Paul, before his conversion, was a rabbinical scholar “brought up at the feet of” the famous rabbi Gamaliel. Acts 5:34; 22:3 Paul undoubtedly learned this legend in his studies. Also, because those days were filled with messianic expectations (Luke 3:15), the prophecy would have been publicly known and discussed. ...


The Added Witness of Hebrews 12:18-28

Paul gave a third prophecy that strongly indicates the Last Shofar legend to be the one alluded to in 1 Cor. 15 and 1 Thes. 4. In Hebrews 12:18-28, Paul directly relates and compares the gathering of Israel to earthly Mount Sinai to the End Time gathering the Church to heavenly Mount Zion:

For you are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire [= Sinai], and to blackness and darkness and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet [the shofar of Ex. 19:16, 19]…but you are come to [heavenly] Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn having been registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men having been made perfect, [and] to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant… Heb. 12:18-19, 22-24

 

Notice the direct contrast between 1) the earthly Mount Sinai at the assembling of carnal Israel on Earth, and 2) the heavenly Mount Zion at the assembling of the sanctified Church in heaven. (Paul makes the same contrast in Galatians 4:21-31.) This direct comparison between

lower versus upper mountains;

carnal (first) versus sanctifying (second/new) covenants;

Old Covenant mediator Moses (Gal. 3:19) versus New Covenant mediator Jesus;

and first versus latter trumpets, is continued in verses 25-26:


See that you do not refuse him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused him who spoke on earth […all the people…said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us…” Ex. 20:18-19], much more shall we not escape if we turn away from him who speaks from heaven [i.e. Jesus: 1 Thes. 4:16 above] – whose voice then shook the earth, but now…“[will] shake not only the earth, but also heaven.” (See Haggai 2:6; 3:21)

This latter-day “turning away” from God’s Presence is described in Rev. 6:15-16:

And the kings of the earth and the great men and the rich men and the commanders and the mighty men and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said, “…hide us from the Face of the one sitting on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb.”

Isaiah 2:10-21 also speaks of this time. Verse 19:

They shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, from the terror of the LORD and the glory of His majesty, when He arises to shake the earth mightily.

And also Rev. 1:7:

Behold, He [Jesus] is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn/wail because of Him.

which brings us, conclusively, to Jesus’ words in Matthew 24:30-31:

then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet [shofar]...

At Mount Sinai, most of God’s called-out assembly, Israel, “stood afar off” (Ex.20:18) – “turned away,” as Paul puts it – from the Lord’s Presence amid the fearsome atmospheric and earthly disturbances. Paul says even greater disturbances will take place at the Last Shofar, when the Lord comes again. Thus, God’s called out assembly, the Church, must be ready to overcome their natural-born fear of the signs and the Face, and not turn away. Those whose overcome and are ready will go up to be with the Lord upon the heavenly Mount Zion, even as Moses, Joshua, Aaron, and the 70 elders went up into the Presence on Mount Sinai.

 

Edited by WilliamL
additions

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We know for sure that the resurrection / rapture happens at the last trumpet.  I've been doing some thinking about the last trumpet, trying to determine what trumpet that could be a reference to.

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.  1 Corinthians 15:52

But which trumpet is it that is being referenced as the last one?  In Revelation 8 we see seven trumpets given to the seven plague angels.  Is the seventh of those trumpets the last one?  The argument against that is that Paul wouldn't have know about those trumpets when he wrote about "the last trumpet."  Even though all scripture is inspired by God, and certainly God knew of them, I think there is a better reason why it is not the seventh trumpet in Revelation.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.  1 Thessalonians 4:16

We see in this verse that the trumpet which is being sounded at the resurrection / rapture, the last one, is the trumpet of God.  This clarifies things greatly because who else would sound the trumpet of God except God Himself?  So, which trumpet would Paul have been aware of, that he is referencing in the above verses, that could qualify as the trumpet of God and be the last one?

Then the Lord will appear over them, and His arrow will go forth like lightning; and the Lord God will blow the trumpet, and will march in the storm winds of the south.  The Lord of hosts will defend them.  And they will devour and trample on the sling stones; and they will drink and be boisterous as with wine; and they will be filled like a sacrificial basin, drenched like the corners of the altar.  And the Lord their God will save them in that day as the flock of His people; for they are as the stones of a crown, sparkling in His land.  Zechariah 9:14-16

Other verses that reference a trumpet on the day of the Lord are Zephaniah 1:16, Joel 2:1, and Isaiah 27:13.

So, based on this, the last trumpet is the trumpet that the Lord Himself blows as He appears in the clouds (over them) in the same day that He pours out His wrath and saves Israel. Paul certainly would have known of this.

This fits perfectly with the day of the Lord coming in one day at the seventh trumpet after the armies gather at Armageddon:

  • The seventh angel sounds his trumpet.
  • Jesus takes His great power and begins to reign.
  • The archangel shouts.
  • Jesus descends to the clouds and sounds the trumpet of God.
  • Those who are Christ's are made immortal.  This is the resurrection / rapture which is pictured as the reaping of the righteous per Rev 14:14-16
  • The marriage supper takes place.  All who attend are immortal.  Time is irrelevant.
  • The seventh angel pours out his bowl.
  • Christ, and those with Him, descend.
  • God's wrath is poured out on the ungodly.  This is the reaping of the wicked per Rev 14:17-20
  • Jesus returns, Israel is saved, and the 1000 year kingdom of God is established on earth.

Trumpets in the old testament had various purposes including announcing a king, gathering an assembly, and preparing for war.  This last trumpet combines all three of those purposes in one blast.

That's the latest sounding of the trumpet of God that I could find.  So, I'll call it the last trumpet until someone can show me from scripture a later one.

You are thinking way too hard on this.I just take God's word in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 then let it go.

No. No I'm not, bopeep.  I have a bit of a different take on who's doing what kind of thinking.

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The "last trumpet" for the saints cannot be the last trumpet for the wicked and the ungodly, therefore the last trumpet connected with the Rapture is completely separate from any of the trumpets connected with the trumpet judgements of the 7th seal. 

Just because the word "trumpet" is common to both does not mean that they are related.  Similarly there is the resurrection of the just which is completely separate from the resurrection of damnation.  Just because "resurrection" is common to both does not make them identical or even related in any way.

You should really abandon your rhetoric in favor of what the Bible says.  And you're addressing things that I didn't even say or imply.

Is Paul referencing a specific, known "last trumpet" trumpet of God, or is he just making something up that's nowhere in the Bible?  Maybe you can list every instance of God blowing His trumpet and we can see which one comes last.  That would be much more beneficial than the "you're wrong because I said so" approach.

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Then it came to pass on the third day…that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet [Hebrew, shofar] exceeding loud…and the whole mount quaked greatly. And the LORD came down upon Mount Sinai… Exodus 19:16, 18, 20

The last trumpet is the trumpet of God.  How many passages speak to God sounding His trumpet?  Or do you think that someone else besides God sounds His trumpet?  You listed Mount Sinai at the receiving of the ten commandments, and I agree.  I also listed Zechariah 9:14-16 which clearly shows the Lord sounding His trumpet when He returns to save Israel.  What other specific verses have God blowing His trumpet?  Which is the last?

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Then it came to pass on the third day…that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet [Hebrew, shofar] exceeding loud…and the whole mount quaked greatly. And the LORD came down upon Mount Sinai… Exodus 19:16, 18, 20

The last trumpet is the trumpet of God.  How many passages speak to God sounding His trumpet?  Or do you think that someone else besides God sounds His trumpet?  You listed Mount Sinai at the receiving of the ten commandments, and I agree.  I also listed Zechariah 9:14-16 which clearly shows the Lord sounding His trumpet when He returns to save Israel.  What other specific verses have God blowing His trumpet?  Which is the last?

Start in chapter 8 of revelation with the seventh seal.  keep reading until right before chapter 12.

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My thoughts on this subject are as followed, based on my study and un-dogmatic opinion. There are two issues to address. One is what last trump was Paul referring to, when he proclaimed the resurrection and rapture will happen at the last trump. There are several opinions of thought on this subject. I assume when we interpret last trump, we are talking about the last trump in a series, or the last trump of an event, and not the last trump ever to be heard. Surly there will be the sound of a trumpet blast heard again. With this I believe we can safely determine Paul is referring to the last trump of a series or event. 

Paul was speaking to the people of that time, (so the message was for us, but not to us) who did not have a New Testament, for it was still basically being lived, and the book of Revelation was a few decades away. With this, it is my opinion the answer to what last trump, was in the text the people of that time had, The O.T. When Paul said at the last trump, if you were in that audience, the first thing to come to your mind would have been the most prominent event celebrated having a series of trumpets being blown. The feast of trumpets would have been your immediate thought, for trumps are blown throughout this day, and at the end of the day, there is a last trump blast ending the day. 

However, if the Feast of Trumpets is when the last trump takes place, this literally means Paul announced the very day and the very hour of this last trump, only the year it takes place is not revealed. This however is only a problem if you believe Matthew 24:36 is referencing the resurrection and rapture. But, on a very close examination we can clearly see from the context of what we are reading in Matthew 24: 34-36, it clearly states the day and hour only the Father knows, is the day the heavens and earth pass away, and not the day of the resurrection and rapture. 

So my opinion is, the resurrection and rapture will happen on a future feast of trumpets. I know this shoots imminence some what in the foot. But I believe imminence is heavily relying on the interpretation of  Matthew 24:36 as the event of the resurrection and rapture when the context of verses 24-36, IMHO, clearly shows it is the day the heavens and earth pass away. This day happens after the 1000 year reign of Christ, as described by Peter, and the last chapters of Revelation.

Numbers chapter 10, gives instruction of gathering at trumpet blast, and this may possibly be in reference to what Paul’s message was about, but I believe the Feast of Trumpets is the correct day Paul is referring to. Also, the Feast of Trumpets is next in line for Christ to fulfill. 

I see the answer to "what last trump" as being a OT referenced event, and not a NT one.

 

 

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Since God does not blow trumpets, but the angels do (and men do also), "the trump of God" simply means a trumpet sound authorized by God for a specific purpose.  It could well have a connection with the OT, but it certainly has no connection with trumpet judgments.  I would take "last trumpet" to mean the last trumpet sound that any saint of God will hear.

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