Confirming the Covenant

[Serving]

20 hours ago, mevosper said:

If I could, I would add one thought to this (nice, work by the way).

"...then the forgiveness will be of the Gentiles instead." I would say "forgiveness will be of the Gentiles also" rather as the atonement was for all man. First to the Jew then to the Gentile.

 

Thanks Mevosper,

I should have been clearer because I was concentrating on the possible National aspect of Christ's statement instead of the individual aspect which you alluded to above .. to which I agree with you wholeheartedly btw.

 

[Montana Marv]

Israel has not yet achieved the six tasks, benefits promised by the Prophecy of Dan 9:24 for them to do or receive.  This Prophecy is not about them not doing or receiving the six tasks, but doing and receiving.

The Prophecy says they have 70 Sevens of Week to accomplish or receive the benefits of them.   PERIOD

For Israel receives all these benefits at the Second Coming.  Zech 13:9b - I will say; 'They are my people." and they will say; "The Lord is our God". 

The six benefits are received by Israel and the Holy City.  Thus fulfilling the 70 Sevens.  Salvation is upon them.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Serving said:

Thanks Daze, I did need to look up timelines though, and, apparently, the majority  of timelines tend to agree with the date of Stephen's stoning of which I used, but just as importantly, there are still others that don't agree as I have found, so really, nobody is 100% sure .. which is why I am instead depending on the scriptures themselves as my guide for the signifier to the end of the week. 

So I am going by this presumption I posted earlier :

Either

1) National Israel would be the ministers for this new covenant BY the 70 weeks completion

.. OR ..

2) Someone else (Gentiles) would be after the 70 weeks.

 

That presumption is according to the 6 conditions God paced upon Israel to fulfil within the 70 weeks.

So to me, something had to happen on the last day of the 'week' before the covenant went out to the Gentiles if National Israel failed the conditions .. and the simple fact that Stephen's death was right before the persecutions began, which forced the disciples to flee out of Israel with the New Covenant, then scripturally, to me, that is the most solid & notable event there is to go with within the scriptures themselves.

So even though it is not solid date wise (of which no one is btw for that 3 1/2 years after crucifixion), I personally find it solid doctrinally wise .. and frankly, That's all we really need in an ideal world where we all saw eye to eye .. but understandingly we don't .. nevertheless, that timeline I used is as solid as it can ever get majority wise, unfortunately .. short of hopping in a time machine and witnessing it for ourselves.

 

I agree and don't see it as imperative that we are able to confirm when Stephen was murdered, it's just that if we knew for sure one way or the other then that would be something.  Not knowing for sure certainly doesn't negate what you've laid out here.

The 70 weeks passage is a bit of an enigma and your explanation fits the bill as it is.  I still wonder though if the 3.5 year ministry of the two witnesses will involve ministering to those of the nation Israel who took flight when the AoD was set up and bring them to a place of repentance when Christ returns.  Perhaps not though and the 490 years are completely finished as you and WilliamL conclude (for different reasons).

Regardless of what the complete and accurate fulfillment all entails, I'm quite certain that we can scratch off of the list the notion that the man of sin confirms a peace treaty with Israel then breaks is midway through.  That explanation is self-contradictory.  It's impossible to have confirmed something for seven years when you quit confirming it after 3.5.

Thanks for your insight, Serving.

[mevosper]

i agree. I think Daze and Serving nailed it. 

[Spock]

On November 1, 2015 at 0:38 AM, Montana Marv said:

 

Sister

Your numbers are way off.  First of all what is said is from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes there will be seven - sevens, and sixty - two sevens. (see the order, first the seven, then the sixty two).  It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.  After the sixty-two sevens, the Anointed One will be cut off.  Here 69 Weeks have pasted.  Then in the future Dan 9:27 - He will confirm a covenant for one seven. 

Then you say that Christ was crucified midweek.  This is false.  Matt 24:15 - So when you see standing in the holy place the A/D spoken of through the prophet Daniel, let the reader understand.  Then those of Judea are to flee to the mountains.  For then there will be great distress.  Nobody fled to the mountains at Jesus crucifixion.

Your numbers don't match with what Scripture says.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Marv,

lit is pretty hard to argue with this analysis, especially the order: 7+62+1.  Seems pretty obvious to me too.

spock

[Spock]

On November 1, 2015 at 0:10 PM, WilliamL said:

The Jews were given the the standard probation period of 40 years to accept the Gospel. After the 40 years were fulfilled, the Jewish War commenced. Those Jews who had accepted the Gospel fled across Jordan to Pella, and those who rebelled against God and Rome were destroyed or carried off as slaves. This is the reason there was a gap between the cutting off of the Messiah, at the end of the 69th week,  and the 70th week.

William,

didnt you say somewhere you believed the last week of Daniel was 66-73 ad, the Jewish war?

if God gave them 40 years to think about it, when did that 40 years commence? I guess according to this calculation, it commenced at 26 ad.  Does that make sense?

and, on what basis can you delay the 70th week by 40 years?  I know they wandered in the wilderness for that long, but can you connect these two events with the same number?  How can you be sure? It seems arbitrary and a filler to me.

thanks,

spock

[Spock]

On November 1, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Last Daze said:

Maybe this is true.  Maybe it's not.  What's more relevant to me is:

• Who confirms the covenant for seven years?
• Which covenant does he confirm?

I'm leaning toward the beast confirming a covenant with the many, perhaps meaning many Islamic nations. 

[Spock]

On November 2, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Last Daze said:

The evil trio is mentioned twice, once in Revelation 16:13 and again in Revelation 20:10.

• And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.  Revelation 16:13
• And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.  Revelation 20:10

Revelation 12 identifies the dragon as Satan.

• And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan.  Revelation 12:9a

The false prophet is the one who deceives the world with the signs he performs in the presence of the beast from the sea.  He is seen as the beast from the earth and later called the false prophet.

• Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.....And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast.  Revelation 13:11,14a
• And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence.  Revelation 19:20a

The dragon is a fallen angel because he is identified as Satan.  The beast from the sea is a fallen angel because he comes up out of the abyss.

• The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.   Revelation 17:8a

The abyss is only used in connection with evil spirit beings, never humans.  It's also in keeping with Daniel 10 where we see the "prince of Persia" and the "prince of Greece" who withstood the angel sent in response to Daniel's prayer.  This beast from the sea is the "prince" of this final world power.

Daze, This post may be one of your finest of this thread. Although you have a lot of good ones, but this one stands out for me. Hard to refute. 

[rollinTHUNDER]

12 minutes ago, Spock said:

Marv,

lit is pretty hard to argue with this analysis, especially the order: 7+62+1.  Seems pretty obvious to me too.

spock

I love the way teachers do math!  I get confused when folks try to add decimals 7+62.5+.5=70.  Oops, it's been so long since I went to school, I hope I said that right.

[Spock]

On November 13, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Esther4:14 said:

I agree with you Ezra.    I am simply illustrating how the covenant with Abraham is fulfilled through Christ because He was a Hebrew.  Then, He said with authority to His disciples, 

"As you enter the house, give it your greeting.  If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace.  Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city,shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city."  (Matthew 10:12-15).  Therefore, the blessings to the descendants of Abraham are given to the believers in Christ both Jew and gentile (Genesis 12:3).  

This is why there is no longer Jew or gentile (Galatians 3:28).  The blessing of descendants of Abraham are through Christ.  It is not an offence to anyone to say that a Jew needs to accept Christ.  It as though we make it out to be some bad thing like an insult to them to say that they need to accept Christ.  Like, oh darn you will receive the Holy Spirit and peace and find greater understand of the law when you accept the Messiah has already come.  Like, come on, seriously.  We have been intimidated in the church by the descendants who still refuse to accept Him as their savior into accepting that they have favor without Christ, and somehow we are not able to discern the difference between Christ's blessing on the nation of Israel with His death on the cross, and the superficial blessing that is being preached today by many who still would rather follow traditions that were birthed from integrating idolatry within Judaism.  

Peace.  

 

Hi Esther and MG, 

i will be honest, I have not read this entire dialog between you two because I found the tone, the spirit, all wrong. It seemed like MG went off on you Esther for being anti- Semitic, but i cringe when I see that term being thrown out so freely. Most of the time there is a misunderstanding or misinterpretation being applied or people don't have all the facts to render a serious judgment like that against a fellow believer in Christ.  

I find nothing anti Semitic in this above post, and even if you said the beast or false prophet were Jewish, I would not find even that qualifying as anti Semitic.  So, I hope we can move on from these accusations and debate issues without resorting to name calling. 

Anyhow, I actually think people should go private to work out issues like this instead of going off in public.  Don't forget, "they will know me by their love for one another (not their name calling)."  

MG, you know I love you, but this thread did not feel right. Let me have it, I can take it.

spock