The Annual, "Is Chrstmas Pagan?" Thread

[thereselittleflower]

No one worships Christmas trees and the Christmas tree as we know it has nothing to do with paganism.   The whole "Christmas is Pagan"  claim is just silly.

Shiloh,

It seems that you are unable to reconcile two separate facts: (a) FACT: Yule is a pagan celebration connected with the winter solstice and December 25 and (b) FACT: Christians have accepted this day to remember the birth of the Savior regardless of the actual significance. So here is something from a wicca/pagan website (which I will not post), but which definitely confirms the pagan origin of Yule:

The date varies from December 20 to December 23 depending on the year in the Gregorian calendar.  Yule is also known as the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere and the summer solstice in the southern hemisphere due to the seasonal differences. Yule, (pronounced EWE-elle) is when the dark half of the year relinquishes to the light half. Starting the next morning at sunrise, the sun climbs just a little higher and stays a little longer in the sky each day. Known as Solstice Night, or the longest night of the year, the sun's "rebirth" was celebrated with much joy. On this night, our ancestors celebrated the rebirth of the Oak King, the Sun King, the Giver of Life that warmed the frozen Earth. From this day forward, the days would become longer. Bonfires were lit in the fields, and crops and trees were "wassailed" with toasts of spiced cider.  Children were escorted from house to house with gifts of clove spiked apples and oranges which were laid in baskets of evergreen boughs and wheat stalks dusted with flour. The apples and oranges represented the sun.  The boughs were symbolic of immortality (evergreens were sacred to the Celts because they did not "die" thereby representing the eternal aspect of the Divine). The wheat stalks portrayed the harvest, and the flour was accomplishment of triumph, light, and life. Holly and ivy not only decorated the outside, but also the inside of homes, in hopes Nature Sprites would come and join the celebration. A sprig of Holly was kept near the door all year long as a constant invitation for good fortune to visit tthe residents. Mistletoe was also hung as decoration.  It represented the seed of the Divine, and at Midwinter, the Druids would travel deep into the forest to harvest it. The ceremonial Yule log was the highlight of the Solstice festival. In accordance to tradition, the log must either have been harvested from the householder's land, or given as a gift... it must never have been bought. Once dragged into the house and placed in the fireplace it was decorated in seasonal greenery, doused with cider or ale, and dusted with flour before set ablaze by a piece of last years log, (held onto for just this purpose). The log would burn throughout the night, then smolder for 12 days after before being ceremonially put out. Ash is the traditional wood of the Yule log. It is the sacred world tree of the Teutons, known as Yggdrasil. An herb of the Sun, Ash brings light into the hearth at the Solstice. A different type of Yule log, and perhaps one more suitable for modern practitioners would be the type that is used as a base to hold three candles. Find a smaller branch of oak or pine, and flatten one side so it sets upright. Drill three holes in the top side to hold red, green, and white (season), green, gold, and black (the Sun God), or white, red, and black (the Great Goddess). Continue to decorate with greenery, red and gold bows, rosebuds, cloves, and dust with flour. Many customs created around Yule are identified with Christmas today.  If you decorate your home with a Yule tree, holly or candles, you are following some of these old traditions.   The Yule log, (usually made from a piece of wood saved from the previous year) is burned in the fire to symbolize the Newborn Sun/Son. Deities of Yule:  All Newborn Gods, Sun Gods, Mother Goddesses, and Triple Goddesses. The best known would be the Dagda, and Brighid, the daughter of the Dagda. Brighid taught the smiths the arts of fire tending and the secrets of metal work. Brighid's flame, like the flame of the new light, pierces the darkness of the spirit and mind, while the Dagda's cauldron assures that Nature will always provide for all the children. Symbolism of Yule: Rebirth of the Sun, The longest night of the year, The Winter Solstice, Introspect, Planning for the Future. Symbols of Yule: Yule log, or small Yule log with 3 candles, evergreen boughs or wreaths, holly, mistletoe hung in doorways, gold pillar candles, baskets of clove studded fruit, a simmering pot of wassail, poinsettias, christmas cactus. Herbs of Yule: Bayberry, blessed thistle, evergreen, frankincense holly, laurel, mistletoe, oak, pine, sage, yellow cedar. Foods of Yule: Cookies and caraway cakes soaked in cider, fruits, nuts, pork dishes, turkey, eggnog, ginger tea, spiced cider, wassail, or lamb's wool (ale, sugar, nutmeg, roasted apples). Incense of Yule: Pine, cedar, bayberry, cinnamon. Colors of Yule: Red, green, gold, white, silver, yellow, orange. Stones of Yule: Rubies, bloodstones, garnets, emeralds, diamonds. Activities of Yule: Caroling, wassailing the trees, burning the Yule log, decorating the Yule tree, exchanging of presents, kissing under the mistletoe, honoring Kriss Kringle the Germanic Pagan God of Yule Spellworkings of Yule: Peace, harmony, love, and increased happiness. Deities of Yule: Goddesses-Brighid, Isis, Demeter, Gaea, Diana, The Great Mother. Gods-Apollo, Ra, Odin, Lugh, The Oak King, The Horned One, The Green Man, The Divine Child, Mabon.

 

 

Do you use a wedding ring or accept it's use?

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

No one worships Christmas trees and the Christmas tree as we know it has nothing to do with paganism.   The whole "Christmas is Pagan"  claim is just silly.

Shiloh,

It seems that you are unable to reconcile two separate facts: (a) FACT: Yule is a pagan celebration connected with the winter solstice and December 25 and (b) FACT: Christians have accepted this day to remember the birth of the Savior regardless of the actual significance. So here is something from a wicca/pagan website (which I will not post), but which definitely confirms the pagan origin of Yule:

The date varies from December 20 to December 23 depending on the year in the Gregorian calendar.  Yule is also known as the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere and the summer solstice in the southern hemisphere due to the seasonal differences. Yule, (pronounced EWE-elle) is when the dark half of the year relinquishes to the light half. Starting the next morning at sunrise, the sun climbs just a little higher and stays a little longer in the sky each day. Known as Solstice Night, or the longest night of the year, the sun's "rebirth" was celebrated with much joy. On this night, our ancestors celebrated the rebirth of the Oak King, the Sun King, the Giver of Life that warmed the frozen Earth. From this day forward, the days would become longer. Bonfires were lit in the fields, and crops and trees were "wassailed" with toasts of spiced cider.  Children were escorted from house to house with gifts of clove spiked apples and oranges which were laid in baskets of evergreen boughs and wheat stalks dusted with flour. The apples and oranges represented the sun.  The boughs were symbolic of immortality (evergreens were sacred to the Celts because they did not "die" thereby representing the eternal aspect of the Divine). The wheat stalks portrayed the harvest, and the flour was accomplishment of triumph, light, and life. Holly and ivy not only decorated the outside, but also the inside of homes, in hopes Nature Sprites would come and join the celebration. A sprig of Holly was kept near the door all year long as a constant invitation for good fortune to visit tthe residents. Mistletoe was also hung as decoration.  It represented the seed of the Divine, and at Midwinter, the Druids would travel deep into the forest to harvest it. The ceremonial Yule log was the highlight of the Solstice festival. In accordance to tradition, the log must either have been harvested from the householder's land, or given as a gift... it must never have been bought. Once dragged into the house and placed in the fireplace it was decorated in seasonal greenery, doused with cider or ale, and dusted with flour before set ablaze by a piece of last years log, (held onto for just this purpose). The log would burn throughout the night, then smolder for 12 days after before being ceremonially put out. Ash is the traditional wood of the Yule log. It is the sacred world tree of the Teutons, known as Yggdrasil. An herb of the Sun, Ash brings light into the hearth at the Solstice. A different type of Yule log, and perhaps one more suitable for modern practitioners would be the type that is used as a base to hold three candles. Find a smaller branch of oak or pine, and flatten one side so it sets upright. Drill three holes in the top side to hold red, green, and white (season), green, gold, and black (the Sun God), or white, red, and black (the Great Goddess). Continue to decorate with greenery, red and gold bows, rosebuds, cloves, and dust with flour. Many customs created around Yule are identified with Christmas today.  If you decorate your home with a Yule tree, holly or candles, you are following some of these old traditions.   The Yule log, (usually made from a piece of wood saved from the previous year) is burned in the fire to symbolize the Newborn Sun/Son. Deities of Yule:  All Newborn Gods, Sun Gods, Mother Goddesses, and Triple Goddesses. The best known would be the Dagda, and Brighid, the daughter of the Dagda. Brighid taught the smiths the arts of fire tending and the secrets of metal work. Brighid's flame, like the flame of the new light, pierces the darkness of the spirit and mind, while the Dagda's cauldron assures that Nature will always provide for all the children. Symbolism of Yule: Rebirth of the Sun, The longest night of the year, The Winter Solstice, Introspect, Planning for the Future. Symbols of Yule: Yule log, or small Yule log with 3 candles, evergreen boughs or wreaths, holly, mistletoe hung in doorways, gold pillar candles, baskets of clove studded fruit, a simmering pot of wassail, poinsettias, christmas cactus. Herbs of Yule: Bayberry, blessed thistle, evergreen, frankincense holly, laurel, mistletoe, oak, pine, sage, yellow cedar. Foods of Yule: Cookies and caraway cakes soaked in cider, fruits, nuts, pork dishes, turkey, eggnog, ginger tea, spiced cider, wassail, or lamb's wool (ale, sugar, nutmeg, roasted apples). Incense of Yule: Pine, cedar, bayberry, cinnamon. Colors of Yule: Red, green, gold, white, silver, yellow, orange. Stones of Yule: Rubies, bloodstones, garnets, emeralds, diamonds. Activities of Yule: Caroling, wassailing the trees, burning the Yule log, decorating the Yule tree, exchanging of presents, kissing under the mistletoe, honoring Kriss Kringle the Germanic Pagan God of Yule Spellworkings of Yule: Peace, harmony, love, and increased happiness. Deities of Yule: Goddesses-Brighid, Isis, Demeter, Gaea, Diana, The Great Mother. Gods-Apollo, Ra, Odin, Lugh, The Oak King, The Horned One, The Green Man, The Divine Child, Mabon.

 

90% of those customs do not apply to anything today that most of us do with regard to Christmas.   And of the ones that are common, there is nothing inherently wrong with them.   Most of them are not employed in the worship of Jesus. 

But if you want to be 100% consistent in this, then you should stop going to church.   The ancient Druids met on "Sunday"  and they would stand in a circle to worship the sun god of the Celts.   The word "circle"  in Gaelic is kirke which has come down to us through the millennia as "church."    The English word "church"  is not a translation of Ekklesia.   You cannot get "church"  from that Greek word.    "Church" is a more modern Anglicization of the word for the ancient Druid practice of "kirke."    If you go through some places in Europe, you will still see that word employed to describe a cathedral or Christian house of worship.

So every time you gather on the pagan day of the sun for "church"  you are carrying on a pagan tradition in your worship of God.

 

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

So, is it wrong to celebrate the birth of my savior ?

[Guest shiloh357]

So, is it wrong to celebrate the birth of my savior ?

Evidently, many think so, but there is a lot of misinformation out there about just what is actually pagan and what isn't.    The Wiccans are trying to lay claim to every single Christian tradition as being of pagan origin, or at least someone posing as a Wiccan, but I am finding that their claims are not really historically accurate.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

Well, I am not pagan or wiccan, and don't believe as they do. I do not celebrate for the reasons they do. I do not share their beliefs or unbelief. I breathe the same air as they, as given to us all by God as well, but that also does not mean I agree with their beliefs. 

[Guest shiloh357]

Well, I am not pagan or wiccan, and don't believe as they do. I do not celebrate for the reasons they do. I do not share their beliefs or unbelief. I breathe the same air as they, as given to us all by God as well, but that also does not mean I agree with their beliefs. 

Well, what we are being told is that these things have their origin in the "Yule" holiday, but I have been doing some fact checking that is not as true as the Wiccans would lead us to believe.  For example, contrary to the article above, Wassail and eggnog have nothing to do with Yule or Wicca or any kind of paganism.   The Christmas tree as we know it originated in Christian Europe not in paganism.   It's all a lot of baloney.

[AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken]

I'll go a step further, in that how I believe is non-affected by what others may believe. If, for example, the Lord's supper was ( and likely is ) somehow tainted in another's belief and practice, does that prohibit me from partaking of what I was told to do in remembrance ? Of course not, as I do not subscribe to their belief and it is merely a matter of what is in my heart. Obviously, my savior's birth was not a " prescribed " duty, but was given as a sign, and was ( to me ) a wonderful event of My God's grace and mercy. If anyone feels differently, it is not for me to judge why, and I certainly understand that many who are God's children refrain due to their own convictions. 

[Guest shiloh357]

I'll go a step further, in that how I believe is non-affected by what others may believe. If, for example, the Lord's supper was ( and likely is ) somehow tainted in another's belief and practice, does that prohibit me from partaking of what I was told to do in remembrance ? Of course not, as I do not subscribe to their belief and it is merely a matter of what is in my heart. Obviously, my savior's birth was not a " prescribed " duty, but was given as a sign, and was ( to me ) a wonderful event of My God's grace and mercy. If anyone feels differently, it is not for me to judge why, and I certainly understand that many who are God's children refrain due to their own convictions. 

Exactly.

[angels4u]

I'll go a step further, in that how I believe is non-affected by what others may believe. If, for example, the Lord's supper was ( and likely is ) somehow tainted in another's belief and practice, does that prohibit me from partaking of what I was told to do in remembrance ? Of course not, as I do not subscribe to their belief and it is merely a matter of what is in my heart. Obviously, my savior's birth was not a " prescribed " duty, but was given as a sign, and was ( to me ) a wonderful event of My God's grace and mercy. If anyone feels differently, it is not for me to judge why, and I certainly understand that many who are God's children refrain due to their own convictions. 

Exactly.

Amen and amen1

[JustinM]

As we can see, the pagans (wiccans) are taking on Christian traditions and trying to convince us they are pagan/secular in nature. 

This tactic is used by injecting a little doubt into our traditions/beliefs so as to either destroy their significance to us, or to make it appear that they are sacrilegious to us in order to deter us from participating in one of our customs and traditions.

Like I stated earlier, celebrating Christmas only becomes a pagan celebration if the focus of the celebration shifts to earthly things instead of the birth of our Savior.

They can try to steal our customs and traditions and try to make us doubt their origins, but what they really want to do is destroy our faith and convince us we are no different than them and that their god is just as real as our God.

Edited November 12, 2015 by JustinM