Vatican: Jews can be saved without Christ

[Guest shiloh357]

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[Guest shiloh357]

35 minutes ago, OldSchool2 said:

Well, which is it? Salvation by mere membership, or by membership in good standing?

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church: "Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation. Since 'without faith it is impossible to please [God]' and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life 'But he who endures to the end'" (161).

That's not all they teach about salvation.  Salvation, in the RCC is by works not SOLELY by faith in Jesus.  They add works to faith in order to gain salvation.   That's one reason why Catholics are not saved.

[thereselittleflower]

   

3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

You the master of word games and twisting what people and the Bible say in order to advance your RCC agenda on this board.  Sorry, but you as wrong as inchrist is.

 

There is a big difference between "advancing" and "defending" or "correcting" misinformation.  It would do you some good to learn the difference so you don't wrongly accuse others.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, thereselittleflower said:

   

 

There is a big difference between "advancing" and "defending."  It would do you some good to learn the difference so you don't wrongly accuse others.

 

I am not falsely accusing you.   You are listed as a Catholic apologist elsewhere.   You are here with an agenda, that is for sure.

[thereselittleflower]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

I am not falsely accusing you.   You are listed as a Catholic apologist elsewhere.   You are here with an agenda, that is for sure.

As I said elsewhere, I am not going to go round and round with someone who chooses to be abusive to those who don't agree with them. 

[thereselittleflower]

17 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Do you not know the 11th commandment? 

I'm curious, the members of Jesus body can't get on with each other how do you expect the Jews to get on with Christians? 

This forum recognizes Catholics as fellow believers, brothers and sisters in Christ.  It is sad that some here can't, but I've come to realize that whether they do or not is out of my hands and I should not be going round and round with certain members only to be beating a dead horse.  It is unfortunate the hostility such behavior engenders on the forums, for there is nothing of the fruits of the Holy Spirit in such behavior,  but that will be between them and God.  

[thereselittleflower]

 

3 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Hardly, through out this entire thread you have gotten just about everything wrong with just about everybody. 

Let's Deal with this cult notion 

Catholicism,  is the ecclesiastical tree from which Protestantism originally splintered. If Catholicism is the mother  of all whores. ..that makes protestant daughters of a whore

Cults are usually formed, molded, and controlled by a single individual or small group. The Catholic church, by contrast, has been molded by a number of people throughout its long history. Catholicism is governed by creeds, councils, and the ongoing magisterium.

Cults typically exercise rigid control over their members and demand unquestioning submission, with disobedience punished by shunning and/or excommunication. 

 Catholicism has exercised a triumphalism and an unhealthy control over its members in times past, this is far less true today, especially since the Second Vatican Council. 

An appropriate description of a cult is “a religious group originating as a heretical sect and maintaining fervent commitment to heresy.

Regardless of one’s criticism of Catholicism, even if it is heretical at certain points, it does not fit this description. Catholicism did not originate out of heresy.

Cults frequently have a low view of the Bible, replacing or supplementing it with their own so-called “sacred writings.” In fact, cults often argue that the Bible has been, to some extent, corrupted and therefore their writings are needed to restore the truth. While Catholicism’s acceptance of noncanonical writings (the Apocrypha) and placing of apostolic tradition on par with Scripture are fundamental problems to the Protestant, Catholics nevertheless retain a high view of the Bible (inspired and infallible) and see it as their central source of revelation.

Cults usually have some kind of authoritarian, totalistic leader or prophet.

In reality the pope governs the church with heavy dependence upon the bishops (college of cardinals), and within the restrictions of the official teaching of the church. 

Cults practice restorationism.

On the other hand Catholicism emphatically deny restorationism, and strongly emphasize the continuity of God’s church throughout history.

If Roman Catholicism as a cult so to must the Eastern Orthodox be. What you dont realize, however, is that if both of these religious bodies are non-Christian, then there was no authentic Christian church during most of the medieval period. Contrary to what some Protestants think, there was no independent, nondenominational, Bible-believing church on the corner (or in the caves) during most of the Middle Ages.

Additionally, the schismatic groups who were around at the time were grossly heretical.

So much for the gates of hell not prevailing against the church (Matt. 16:18).

 Even with the serious problems evident in Roman Catholic theology from a Protestant point of view, Catholic doctrine overall does not fit the pattern of the recognized cult groups

Catholicism affirms most of what the cults deny and possesses an orthodox foundation which all cult groups lack.

 

 

Thank you for that enlightening comparison.

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

Sorry, but even today the RCC is really nothing but a cult.  RCC promotes idolatry and is as far from orthodoxy as you can get.

[Guest shiloh357]

13 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

This forum recognizes Catholics as fellow believers, brothers and sisters in Christ.  It is sad that some here can't, but I've come to realize that whether they do or not is out of my hands and I should not be going round and round with certain members only to be beating a dead horse.  It is unfortunate the hostility such behavior engenders on the forums, for there is nothing of the fruits of the Holy Spirit in such behavior,  but that will be between them and God.  

Sorry, but someone who hates Israel and promotes anti-Zionism/anti-Semitism has nothing to say to anyone about the "fruit of the Spirit."

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, simplejeff said:

The members of any cult never consider that they are wrong, and explain away instead of accepting Scripture.

 

The RCC places a low premium on the Bible.   Their three tier hierarchy of authority starts with the Pope, then sacred tradition and then the Bible, last of all.   For a long time, the Bible meant what the Pope and the priests said it meant.   They kept people poor and dumb so that they could control them.  No one was allowed to read or interpret the Bible otherwise they would have seen how deceived they had been by the RCC.